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I've been following the #GamerGate trainwreck for a while. #SavePoint seems to maybe be about improving gamer culture? I don't know. I've not seen #SavePoint be

I've been following the #GamerGate trainwreck for a while. #SavePoint seems to maybe be about improving gamer culture? I don't know. I've not seen #SavePoint before today. For those who don't know, #GamerGate claimed to be about "journalistic ethics" when they were actually just harassing a women (and later other women) who said negative things about how women were treated in games. [1] The #SavePoint group seems to be very explicitly against harassment of any kind, and at least gives lip service to freedom of expression of both game developers and critics. I don't know if this is just a facade, like the one previously worn by #GamerGate, or if this is the real deal. The #GamerGate tag is hopelessly associated with misogyny and harassment, so the fact that they want to use a new hashtag is actually a minor point in their favor. But other than "gaming ethics," I'm not really sure what they exist to promote. And I'm not even sure what they mean any more by "gaming ethics," considering the initial #gamergate accusations were proven completely and utterly false. (Including outrage at an article on GamaSutra [2] that pissed off a bunch of "gamers" who completely misunderstood it. [3]) [1] http://gawker.com/what-is-gamergate-and-why-an-explainer-for-non-geeks-1642909080 http://gawker.com/what-is-gamergate-and-why-an-explainer-for... [2] http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/224400/Gamers_dont_have_to_be_your_audience_Gamers_are_over.php http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/224400/Gamers_dont_have_t... [3] https://medium.com/plaguearist-does-gamergate/im-doing-this-without-permission-of-the-author-but-here-is-an-annotated-version-of-gamers-don-6bc264fec0f3 https://medium.com/plaguearist-does-gamergate/im-doing-this-...

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
- BlackAura 11y ago
  #3 is... a bunch of paranoid conspiracy theory bullshit. Let's have a look at the first entry. I'll probably get bored after a few of these, but... whatever. Charge 1 - Leigh Alexander stands accused of writing an article that GG disagree with, and that many of them inexplicably interpreted as some kind of threat, or something. I don't know. The article was basically about how video games have become mainstream, the concept of a "gamer" demographic is largely meaningless, and developers and publishers need not, and should not, solely target everything at this narrow demographic. Charge 2 - She is accused of talking to her colleagues, possibly at other publications. She may have engaged in such crimes as discussing her work with others, and building a network of contacts. Y'know... journalism. Because apparently all journalism must be done in a vacuum. Charge 3 - She is accused to also doing other work, and talking about that other work on her personal social media accounts. Even though there's no evidence that she's done anything wrong as a journalist, she totally could have if she wanted to, and therefore can't be trusted, or something? At this point, I'm just bored. Most of the rest of the list is basically that Leigh is accused of having professional relationships with people in the games industry. Y'know, like every other games journalist - this whole professional networking thing is kind of how journalists get access to things. Same's true for journalists covering any other entertainment industry. Or politics. Or business. Or... I mean, repeatedly accusing a journalist of doing her job just seems utterly ridiculous. What else... There's an accusation of lying, which is included even though the accusation itself says that it was probably misinterpreted. A whole bunch of Twitter B.S. that nobody cares about. Some paranoid ramblings, and a whole bunch of other inconsequential crap that nobody cares about... So... That's the smoking gun? Really? > Even though most #GamerGate accounts were proven not to be harassers Wrong. There was no "proven" anywhere - just that there was a lot of harassment on Twitter that wasn't associated with GG, and a wider study only picked up a small number of GG-associated accounts. Which is something entirely different, despite what GG like to pretend.
  - mcphage 11y ago
    MRS ALEXANDER DID YOU OR DID YOU NOT JOIN THE CRIMINAL COLLUSION NETWORK "linkedin.com"?
  - xlm1717 11y ago
    I don't think it's a bunch of paranoid conspiracy theory bullshit. A lot of the items on that list are known and established facts. One of the ones that GG brings special attention to is the relationship between Nathan Grayson and Zoe Quinn, and how Grayson covered Quinn without revealing this relationship, a clear conflict of interest. To make it look worse Kyle Orland suggested to the mailing list that they not even cover news of this disclosure. [1] For his part, Kyle then went on to apologize [2], but if GG had not been a watchdog in gaming journalism ethics, we already had an idea of how the story was going to be spinned. [1] https://archive.is/NaHx0#selection-333.0-345.310 https://archive.is/NaHx0#selection-333.0-345.310 [2] http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/09/addressing-allegations-of-collusion-among-gaming-journalists/ http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/09/addressing-allegations...
    - SomeCallMeTim 11y ago
      >Grayson covered Quinn without revealing this relationship You're repeating lies. A quote from the article I linked above: >But Grayson never reviewed Depression Quest. He once wrote half a sentence about the game, before his relationship with Quinn ever started, but that's it. Critics of Quinn and Grayson have also raised concerns about this Kotaku article [1]—it was written before they started dating. This has been confirmed directly by Kotoku and Grayson on multiple occasions. Google it. Please repeat after me: There is no smoking gun. The entire GamerGate movement is based on lies, misogyny, and anti-feminism. Find a different hashtag if you care about journalism ethics, and stop only blaming the women. The journalist, in this case, was a man, but he wasn't doxed, just Quinn! In other cases it was the female journalists who were harassed. (Not that doxing is ever the right answer! And not that I should even have to explain that...) No, GG is clearly not about journalistic ethics. It's a group that's attempting to bully people into reporting only what they want to hear -- and they find it easier to bully the women. Charming, really. Find a new group to defend, or risk being painted with a rather nasty brush. [1] http://tmi.kotaku.com/the-indie-game-reality-tv-show-that-went-to-hell-1555599284 http://tmi.kotaku.com/the-indie-game-reality-tv-show-that-we...

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

BlackAura 11y ago
#3 is... a bunch of paranoid conspiracy theory bullshit. Let's have a look at the first entry. I'll probably get bored after a few of these, but... whatever. Charge 1 - Leigh Alexander stands accused of writing an article that GG disagree with, and that many of them inexplicably interpreted as some kind of threat, or something. I don't know. The article was basically about how video games have become mainstream, the concept of a "gamer" demographic is largely meaningless, and developers and publishers need not, and should not, solely target everything at this narrow demographic. Charge 2 - She is accused of talking to her colleagues, possibly at other publications. She may have engaged in such crimes as discussing her work with others, and building a network of contacts. Y'know... journalism. Because apparently all journalism must be done in a vacuum. Charge 3 - She is accused to also doing other work, and talking about that other work on her personal social media accounts. Even though there's no evidence that she's done anything wrong as a journalist, she totally could have if she wanted to, and therefore can't be trusted, or something? At this point, I'm just bored. Most of the rest of the list is basically that Leigh is accused of having professional relationships with people in the games industry. Y'know, like every other games journalist - this whole professional networking thing is kind of how journalists get access to things. Same's true for journalists covering any other entertainment industry. Or politics. Or business. Or... I mean, repeatedly accusing a journalist of doing her job just seems utterly ridiculous. What else... There's an accusation of lying, which is included even though the accusation itself says that it was probably misinterpreted. A whole bunch of Twitter B.S. that nobody cares about. Some paranoid ramblings, and a whole bunch of other inconsequential crap that nobody cares about... So... That's the smoking gun? Really? > Even though most #GamerGate accounts were proven not to be harassers Wrong. There was no "proven" anywhere - just that there was a lot of harassment on Twitter that wasn't associated with GG, and a wider study only picked up a small number of GG-associated accounts. Which is something entirely different, despite what GG like to pretend.
- mcphage 11y ago
  MRS ALEXANDER DID YOU OR DID YOU NOT JOIN THE CRIMINAL COLLUSION NETWORK "linkedin.com"?
- xlm1717 11y ago
  I don't think it's a bunch of paranoid conspiracy theory bullshit. A lot of the items on that list are known and established facts. One of the ones that GG brings special attention to is the relationship between Nathan Grayson and Zoe Quinn, and how Grayson covered Quinn without revealing this relationship, a clear conflict of interest. To make it look worse Kyle Orland suggested to the mailing list that they not even cover news of this disclosure. [1] For his part, Kyle then went on to apologize [2], but if GG had not been a watchdog in gaming journalism ethics, we already had an idea of how the story was going to be spinned. [1] https://archive.is/NaHx0#selection-333.0-345.310 https://archive.is/NaHx0#selection-333.0-345.310 [2] http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/09/addressing-allegations-of-collusion-among-gaming-journalists/ http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/09/addressing-allegations...
  - SomeCallMeTim 11y ago
    >Grayson covered Quinn without revealing this relationship You're repeating lies. A quote from the article I linked above: >But Grayson never reviewed Depression Quest. He once wrote half a sentence about the game, before his relationship with Quinn ever started, but that's it. Critics of Quinn and Grayson have also raised concerns about this Kotaku article [1]—it was written before they started dating. This has been confirmed directly by Kotoku and Grayson on multiple occasions. Google it. Please repeat after me: There is no smoking gun. The entire GamerGate movement is based on lies, misogyny, and anti-feminism. Find a different hashtag if you care about journalism ethics, and stop only blaming the women. The journalist, in this case, was a man, but he wasn't doxed, just Quinn! In other cases it was the female journalists who were harassed. (Not that doxing is ever the right answer! And not that I should even have to explain that...) No, GG is clearly not about journalistic ethics. It's a group that's attempting to bully people into reporting only what they want to hear -- and they find it easier to bully the women. Charming, really. Find a new group to defend, or risk being painted with a rather nasty brush. [1] http://tmi.kotaku.com/the-indie-game-reality-tv-show-that-went-to-hell-1555599284 http://tmi.kotaku.com/the-indie-game-reality-tv-show-that-we...