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>>In the eyes of some, Asians in America are, Lee writes, “perpetual foreigners at worst, or probationary Americans at best.” If Asians sometimes remain silent
by otoburb 11y ago
>>In the eyes of some, Asians in America are, Lee writes, “perpetual foreigners at worst, or probationary Americans at best.” If Asians sometimes remain silent in the face of racism, and if some seem to work unusually hard in the face of this difficult history, it is not because they want to be part of a “model minority” but because they have often had no other choice.
A racial epithet was thrown at me and my family in parting by a homeless person last year while crossing the intersection in my neighborhood, which we shrugged off. This quote prompted the memory again, and I think that Asians in Western countries may remain silent also because causing a scene is, in general, considered "unseemly" when little is perceived to be gained. I originally felt this to be a rather rational response for anybody else (regardless of their race), but when placed against the backdrop of the Immigration and Nationality Act of '65 mentioned in the article, I'm considering a different response the next time, although I sincerely hopefully there won't be a next time.
Makes one almost laugh good-naturedly at serious and systematic Canadian Québécois policies devoted to keeping the French language alive in Canada. I much rather prefer intense debates around language over race.
EDIT: I grew up in the Middle East, where racism is overt. In Saudi Arabia (for example), your salary for the exact same job is to a large extent determined by your passport nationality. I grew up expecting it there; but it always give me pause when encountering racism in a Western country.
- sliverstorm 11y agoAs a male WASP, why would you bother with what a homeless person thinks of you? I too ignore the angry hateful ones. They hate me too, though they may lack epithets for me. It's a pointless unwinnable argument, and you'll never look like the good guy, yelling at a homeless person
- chimeracoder 11y agoThere's a very good chance I'll get downvoted for this, but what the heck: > As a male WASP, why would you bother with what a homeless person thinks of you? I too ignore the angry vitrolic ones. They hate me too, though they may lack epithets for me. It's a pointless unwinnable argument, and you'll never look like the good guy, yelling at a homeless person The answer is in the original comment >> If Asians sometimes remain silent in the face of racism, and if some seem to work unusually hard in the face of this difficult history, it is not because they want to be part of a “model minority” but because they have often had no other choice. Asian-Americans are told by others all their life that it's uncouth to speak out about injustices that happen to them. Ironically, the first comment on an article that discusses this point mentions one of these injustices, and the first reply is a comment that suggests that they should remain silent about it instead. It's one thing to remain silent as a conscious decision not to want to look like the "bad guy", but it's an entirely different thing to remain silent as a conscious (or unconscious) reaction to the societal role that you've been conditioned to.
- sliverstorm 11y agoI guess my point of confusion is that it seems to me like angry homeless people using slurs are not an injustice visited upon Asian Americans, but rather garden variety obnoxious people who in my experience hate everyone, not just Asian Americans. I understand Asian Americans face systemic racism; it's just that the particular example at hand seems like something else. My original parent is welcome to say things back if they like. But it just seems pointless, no matter what nationality you are. Anyway, I know I'm on the "wrong" side of this discussion for HN, but that doesn't make me less confused.
- kelukelugames 11y agoYou are absolutely right. It should be easy to brush off homeless people, belligerent drivers, random drunk people, immature teenagers, dumb co-workers, etc. Minorities tend to be more sensitive because their armor has already been pierced multiple times. That's why "the confidence of a man" or "the confidence of a white man" is a saying. I know the crap I go through it's not even a fraction of hers but this is a good example. https://thsppl.com/why-i-m-absolutely-an-angry-black-woman-2cf74c95828#.4qv8322t2 https://thsppl.com/why-i-m-absolutely-an-angry-black-woman-2... It explains why some of my friends are super sensitive.
- sliverstorm 11y agoOk, that actually does make easy intuitive sense. I can understand being more sensitive or less self-assured. Thanks.
- vaishaksuresh 11y agoI think you missed the part where he said he is from middle east, so not a WASP. It is hard to understand why someone feels bad about racial slurs until you experience it yourself. It is somewhat tolerable when the discrimination comes out of people's ignorance, but it is hard to tolerate systemic discrimination.
- ldd 11y agoRacism against Asians in North America is really puzzling. It is excessively common to hear female acquaintances, even asian ones, say that they would never date an asian guy. Compound this with comments that belittle asians in movies, TV shows and in just about every conversation, I sometimes wonder why they keep so quiet. Then I remember that racism is a complex and delicate question, and that our society is still incapable of dealing with these issues in 2015. ps: As a child of bill 101, I do not really understand what you meant by that comment about French in Quebec.
- chimeracoder 11y ago> I sometimes wonder why they keep so quiet. A big part of it is being consistently dismissed or more often punished for speaking up. Because of the myth that racism "doesn't happen" in the West, or that racism "doesn't happen" against Asian-Americans, if you try to speak up about it, one of two things will happen: 1. You'll be told that you should just rise above it[0], that you're imagining it, or (my personal favorite) that it's "not really racism" because $REASON. 2. You'll face outright retaliation for bringing it to light, and thereby forcing people to face an uncomfortable truth After a while, the fear of these reactions gets internalized, and people decide that it's safer just to remain silent. EDIT Ironically, as I'm writing this comment, this pattern is already playing out in the sibling comments, with more than one person telling OP that he should just ignore it (or in other words, "be better than that"). Which misses the whole point of the story. [0] and this is how the role of the "model minority" is actually used as a weapon
- huac 11y agoYou don't even need overtly racist comments in movies to satisfy a structural system of racism. The absence of strong minority leads is enough - I can't think of any Asian or Middle Eastern actors with strong leading roles in America (unless they're really hot women serving as exotic temptresses, which isn't really the same)
- random_32467 11y agoAre people like Jet Li and Jackie Chan to stereotypical to count?
- gotchange 11y agoI suggest that you let go of this incident as it is not worth it to get all worked up over a casual insult especially from a homeless person as you'd be dragged into their mud and they'll win by experience. I recall some time ago I was walking down the street when a panhandler approached me and asked me for money and as usual I ignored him and when he noticed that I paid no attention to his request, he told me he hopes to see me burned alive to which I replied with a fake smile and just went on thinking how he could thought that insulting me would win me over and make me change my mind and pay him, and that's it. 15 seconds later, I had better things to preoccupy my mind with end of story.
- random_32467 11y agoAnyone know if there is a place where whites are a discriminated against minority? Zimbabwe?
- teddyh 11y agoJapan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan
- random_32467 11y agoDoes anyone know if there is a place that we can read about first hand accounts of the trials and tribulations of white people in Japan? Are there special slurs especially for white people?
- douche 11y agoGaijin is the classic one, isn't it?
- krapp 11y agoThat covers any foreigner, though, not any specific subset.
- ojii 11y agoGaijin is just "foreigner" (though it is a slur, as it's an abbreviated form of Gaikokujin). What you're looking for is "Hakujin", meaning "white person". I'm not sure if it's really a slur, though it does feel a bit odd to me if people use it to refer to me.
- deciplex 11y agoGaijin is not an abbreviated form of gaikokujin, and neither term is really a slur. There aren't a lot of words in Japanese that are unambiguously slurs, like there are in English. That said, there are words that, when used, are used in a pejorative sense more often than not. Hakujin is probably one of them, and kokujin definitely is.