7 ms·

Girl, Bye

15 points by twampss 11y ago

zzalpha 11y ago
There's a LOT of reading between the lines going on, here. Going from Matt doesn’t feel comfortable around you. He’s worried that you either don’t like him for some reason, or you’re mad at him. He thinks maybe you’re upset about his recent promotion, because it means you’ll have to do more work to cover for his newfound absence on the team to What we’re really saying here is that your unreconcilable feelings toward my lack of enthusiasm for you as a person might distract you from getting your work done. Seems like an enormous leap. Here's some advice: 1. Take a breath. 2. Do not vent to your friends. They're your friends. Their job is to be your echo chamber, which is only going to heat you up instead of calming you down. 3. Take another breath. 4. Now try to come up with a rational, constructive way forward. The simplest, most reasonable response to this little intervention by your manager is the most obvious: tell him you're surprised, that you have no problem with your co-worker's success, and that if there's concerns they're free to talk to you directly, as you didn't realize there was a problem in the first place. Then move the hell on. This is the other person's problem, not yours, and escalating it like this, turning it into some personal, angry vendetta, only makes things worse. And before folks suggest I wouldn't offer this advice to a man in this situation, rest assured, I would. In fact, I've personally been on the other side of exchanges like this. It's incredibly easy to stew and vent and transform the exchange from a stupid misunderstanding into a personal vendetta, with them cast as villain and you cast as misunderstood victim. And god knows it feels good... how exhilarating is it to get self-righteously pissed off? It's very addictive. Dangerously so. The solution, regardless of the genders involved, is to be mature, erring on the side of assuming it's a basic human misunderstanding. It's part of being an adult in a world where not everyone else is.
- lukev 11y ago
  So, this is subtle, because everything you say is good advice and can't really be argued against. Calm down, don't overreact, give the benefit of the doubt, be constructive, etc, etc. These are basic, undeniable principles of good human interaction. But. But. Consider an alternative hypothesis; that the author really did experience a bit of nasty, petty sexism. In that case, responses like yours at best sweep the problem under the rug, and at worst patronizingly pat the woman on the head and tell her not to be hysterical. In other words, if this is a real problem, your undeniably good advice actually isn't constructive towards fixing the root issue. It's allowing it to perpetuate.
  - zzalpha 11y ago
    In other words, if this is a real problem, your undeniably good advice actually isn't constructive towards fixing the root issue. It's allowing it to perpetuate. And raging on Tumblr is? Look, if there's some deeply embedded injustice going on, here, it's not evident from this single exchange. If this single exchange is part of a broader pattern with this person, that's something a manager and HR can help deal with, and you would be very well advised to keep cool in order to avoid escalating the situation further. Maintaining the moral high-ground isn't just about ideals, it's also practical advice for winning out in an exchange like this. If this exchange is part of a larger, company-wide or societal trend, speaking about it rationally is still the better course as, right now, it's very hard to take this person seriously. Without additional context, this just looks like an insecure 20-something who's just struggling with their first workplace confrontation. To some up: I can think of no scenario where behaving as this person has done will improve the situation, whether it's a one-off, or something systemic. Edit: Incidentally, it's entirely possible that this person raged out on their blog as part of processing this whole thing, then stepped back and started looking for a constructive path forward. If that's the case, great. Everything I've written, here, presumes that this post represents their definitive reaction to the situation, which may be entirely unfair.
    - lukev 11y ago
      If there is a systemic problem, then yes, loud, fervent and frequent verbal raging from all quarters is an appropriate response. "Keep your head down" has never been a constructive strategy for minority groups targeted by discrimination. Look, I don't know what the truth is here. To some extent I don't care. But I do know that there is a pervasive problem with sexism in tech, and I know that every time you or I publicly comment on it, we take a side. If you show support, you're sending the message to everyone that that discrimination is not cool. If you publicly undermine the reliability or emotional state of the reporter, you are actively re-affirming the status quo and denying that there is a problem. If you doubt the reliability of someone, do it privately. Don't comment at all. As it is, I can only assume that you actively oppose the growing movement to try and solve this problem. Speech acts matter. Even online.
angersock 11y ago
"There is a long, long list of the kinds of people I don’t befriend. I don’t generally befriend people with whom I don’t quickly click. I don’t befriend people with largely different sets of values, political views, interests, or senses of humor. I don’t befriend people from whom I get bad vibes. And, I don’t befriend people who I just don’t fucking like." Somebody so deadset against getting along with people and making friends probably shouldn't be surprised or angry that her coworker is concerned that they aren't getting along.
- soylentcola 11y ago
  Eh, I think the idea is that you get to a point where you can have professional/working relationships with others even if you don't really like them. I know I have. It would be nice if all of my coworkers and collaborators were my best buds but in reality, you run into all kinds and sometimes you just don't like people you work with. And that's fine. It's a mark of professionalism when you can still take care of a job even if you think someone's politics or personality are incompatible with yours.
exstudent2 11y ago
"Tangentially, I think the entire college sports organization is embarrassing, antiquated and Rapey with a capital “R.” It drives tuitions up and gives a small niche of bumbling bro-bots the lifelong expectation that they will be able to skirt through life without brains, manners, or ever learning the idea of earned respect. “I can twirl a basketball on my finger, how dare you not want to fuck me.” And so on." I would feel uncomfortable around her too if she brought this attitude into the work place. Side note: Please use contrast in your design choices if you're going to write multi paragraph essays. My eyes hurt!
mahouse 11y ago
This post is so cliché-y I am having a hard time believing it hasn't been automatically generated by Markov chains.
cballard 11y ago
> The coworker in question is a heterosexual white male. My manager is a heterosexual white male. There are five other people in my organization in the office where I work. They are all heterosexual white males. How is this person so sure of this? I have no idea what the orientation of anyone I work with is... I can eliminate "homosexual" or "heterosexual" for most of them, as they have mentioned ____friends, but certainly cannot eliminate "bisexual"...
eevilspock 11y ago
Wow, all of the comments that precede mine are an embarrassment to HN, demonstrate the swift defensive attacks that preclude any possibility of dialogue, and reinforce the notion many have of bro-cognitive dissonance. Turning gray in 3, 2, 1...
- exstudent2 11y ago
  You would want to work with someone that says all of college sports is "Rapey"? I'm sorry, that's not professional or mature.
  - strangecasts 11y ago
    I'm sorry, that's not professional or mature. Since when is liking sports a professional requirement?
    - exstudent2 11y ago
      I don't like sports. Actually I hate them. Calling anyone/anything "Rapey" is what's unprofessional (to the extreme).
      - strangecasts 11y ago
        It's her private opinion though?
        exstudent2 11y ago
        Not when she publishes it to Tumblr.
  - eevilspock 11y ago
    It is her opinion, and it is hyperbole. But the gist of it I get. The sexist attitudes toward women in male dominated areas, from fraternities to sports to the military, are well known, and often these attitudes generate "rapey" behavior, if not outright rape. From her description he seems to have that kind of attitude, including calling women "chicks". But as she states in her article, she kept to herself. There is no indication that she share this point of view with him, and more indication that she did not. She specifically stated he knows nothing about her. In that same paragraph she talked about his innapropriate and unprofessional behavior. If you had any sympathy for what it might be like being a woman, you might be a little more forgiving of her hyperbole, and less forgiving of his calling women "chicks". You might have been taken aback that he went to the manager because he felt "uncomfortable", pointing out that the person who is most justified in feeling uncomfortable was her.
hypnos1 11y ago
If this kind of post can be dismissed as cliche, its an indication of a problem in the industry and not with the writer. The commenters that preceded me would do well to remember her article is a venting on Tumblr, and not the conversation she had with her co-workers or manager. Denigrating her tumblr post for being an inappropriate work attitude misses the point.
- exstudent2 11y ago
  What problem in the industry do you think this is pointing out? Someone told their manager that they were uncomfortable working with her, and she said it's sexism. Seems to me the co-worker did the right thing by going to their manager instead of being a jerk/passive aggressive. People probably think it's cliche because she uses the air conditioning is patriarchy argument.
  - lukev 11y ago
    What problem is this pointing out? Sexism, obviously. And your response is another, classic example of the same problem; you're willing to give the guy in the story the benefit of the doubt while summarily dismissing the woman's complaint. In other words, in a literal case of "he said, she said" you side with the male by default. Uncool.
    - exstudent2 11y ago
      I'm literally going off of the facts she states in her post. The guy said he's uncomfortable around her. This is not a gendered issue, this is an interpersonal issue and not even a bad one. This co-worker told the manager about an issue he perceived but he in no way treated the author of this piece maliciously.
      - hypnos1 11y ago
        The facts you're ignoring are his characterization of female colleagues and contacts as "chicks", and allegedly repeated behavior of talking about his sexual encounters in the office. This is the type of behavior that can lead to a hostile work environment suit.
dudul 11y ago
I totally understand why Matt would feel uncomfortable around this person.
Mz 11y ago
I am not upvoting this. I would like to see less of this on HN. As a woman, I sympathize with her frustration. I understand her anger. I think this could go over well in a different forum. It will not play well here. It will not help further productive discussion about a real path forward. It frustrates me that this kind of stuff gets upvoted -- often far more than more even-handed writing that looks for a real path forward instead of someone to blame -- and then gets a lot of dismissive commentary. This only helps reinforce battle lines. It doesn't generally make men sympathetic to what women face; it doesn't propose an effective path forward; it doesn't provide new tools or mental models for genuinely improving things. Men blame women for the fact that women feel crapped on. Women blame men for the fact that women feel crapped on. Neither of these positions gets us to a place where women stop feeling crapped on. Neither gives a new way to view the problem space so we can stop pointing fingers and start working together better.
- devereaux 11y ago
  Nothing else to say - you said it all. Not adding to the fire is the best thing. If I were to nitpick, I'd say some interventions are appropriate, but only when adding context or information, and when the tone of the conversation makes them welcome. (EDIT- spelling and clarity)
tcdent 11y ago
How is this sexism? Because it's between a girl and a guy? This could play out exactly the same between two females or two males. This is nothing more than a communication breakdown. "Matt thinks..." because Matt has to come to some plausible conclusion in his own mind. Nevermind if it's wrong, it's the best explanation he can find and we should respect that. Now it's both of your responsibility, as social human beings wishing to maintain a professional relationship, to honestly convey your position to each other. If his accusation is blatantly false, don't use it to fuel your arguments, speak from your understanding of the situation. Now listen to his. "Oh dear, aren't we silly, going off in tangents in our minds without any concrete evidence of these things actually being true." "I'm glad we talked." Also, rattling off 100 ways in which you hate Matt is suspect. I don't like any of those things either, but I try to refrain from shit talking. If Matt wants to talk sports, I'll entertain it. Eventually he'll learn how shallow my interests are, maybe via body language or even a direct statement, and we'll discuss something else from then on. The part where you offensively generalize what you think are typical male and female interests? There's the sexism.
rtz12 11y ago
Who ever thought that grey text on white background is a good idea? I would have maybe read this ridiculous article, but I can't, as my eyes are bleeding.
sssilver 11y ago
> The most personal thing he knows about me is my dog’s name, and I know even less about him. So why isn’t he comfortable around me? For me that would be exactly why I am uncomfortable with someone I work and spend time with every day.
- greenyoda 11y ago
  It's entirely possible to have a professional relationship with your co-workers without them being your friends. I get along very well with my co-workers on a professional level (e.g., I'm always there to help if asked), but I socialize with only a handful of them, and very few know anything about my personal life.
  - sssilver 11y ago
    It's certainly possible, but that would make me personally feel very uncomfortable around these people, and I would eventually float towards working in a more tightly coupled team with relationships that transcend work. That being said, many people actually prefer having that distance. For me I find that distance bothers me, and that may be a cultural thing.
DrScump 11y ago
These questions come to mind immediately: 1) why is the gender of Matt relevant to the complaint at hand? 2) why is the gender of your other coworkers relevant to the complaint at hand? 3) why is the sexual preference of any of them relevant to the complaint at hand? (note that later the writer states explicitly that she does not know Matt's dating life). 4) "majority-dominated"? Aren't females the majority? 5) why do you find only female comedians funny? 6) comments like, "dumb basketball game" and categorizing sports are "Rapey" (!) are indicative of bias to an overtly inflammatory degree. Even if the writer thinks she never voices such opinions, I'm guessing that they "leak out" all over the place, Here's a key example: "... most importantly and egregiously, pretend to accept and tolerate conversation and ideas that I find degrading, disgusting, and sexist." Did such conversation actually happen with these specific coworkers, or does the writer just assume such by lumping all Heterosexual. White. Males. into one rotting bin? ? Explicitly sexist (let alone "rapey") conversation in the workplace is actionable. There is very low tolerance for behavior contributing to a hostile workplace pretty much everywhere in the U.S. nowadays (for legal exposure, if nothing else) -- the author gives no indication that she ever initiated or pursued any report of inappropriate behavior to H.R. or superiors. Anyway, a narrative riddled with comments like, "bro-bots", "rage-y, racist white dudes", "straight male rage against women", or "vast and exasperating patchwork of male insecurity" indicates zero interest in constructive, rational dialogue. In closing, she includes, "I vented relentlessly to my girlfriends and my gay friends...". I found it unsurprising that she lacks straight male friends with whom she feels capable of candid conversation.
mailslot 11y ago
I have been on the opposite side, working in a female dominated office of fifty employees. I was one of seven males, myself interning during summer vacation. I was once called into HR because I made someone feel uncomfortable by not saying hello to them that morning. I was intent on putting out a fire that was causing $1,000.00's worth of losses per minute. That was not important, because I made someone feel uncomfortable. My discomfort was secondary in all situations that summer. If you think that sexism only works one way, think again. I wasn't part of the girls club. Many, certainly not all, of these women conducted their "locker room" talk in my presence. There were inappropriate remarks, vulgar remarks, gentle teasing and even full blown harassment. Any man would lose a career over some of the things they'd talk about... or my ass they'd grab. Professionalism is professionalism. One thing that stands out though, the women would continually accuse the men of the office of being sexist pigs, myself included.

15 points by twampss 11y ago

There's a LOT of reading between the lines going on, here. Going from Matt doesn’t feel comfortable around you. He’s worried that you either don’t like him for some reason, or you’re mad at him. He thinks maybe you’re upset about his recent promotion, because it means you’ll have to do more work to cover for his newfound absence on the team to What we’re really saying here is that your unreconcilable feelings toward my lack of enthusiasm for you as a person might distract you from getting your work done. Seems like an enormous leap. Here's some advice: 1. Take a breath. 2. Do not vent to your friends. They're your friends. Their job is to be your echo chamber, which is only going to heat you up instead of calming you down. 3. Take another breath. 4. Now try to come up with a rational, constructive way forward. The simplest, most reasonable response to this little intervention by your manager is the most obvious: tell him you're surprised, that you have no problem with your co-worker's success, and that if there's concerns they're free to talk to you directly, as you didn't realize there was a problem in the first place. Then move the hell on. This is the other person's problem, not yours, and escalating it like this, turning it into some personal, angry vendetta, only makes things worse. And before folks suggest I wouldn't offer this advice to a man in this situation, rest assured, I would. In fact, I've personally been on the other side of exchanges like this. It's incredibly easy to stew and vent and transform the exchange from a stupid misunderstanding into a personal vendetta, with them cast as villain and you cast as misunderstood victim. And god knows it feels good... how exhilarating is it to get self-righteously pissed off? It's very addictive. Dangerously so. The solution, regardless of the genders involved, is to be mature, erring on the side of assuming it's a basic human misunderstanding. It's part of being an adult in a world where not everyone else is.

lukev 11y ago
So, this is subtle, because everything you say is good advice and can't really be argued against. Calm down, don't overreact, give the benefit of the doubt, be constructive, etc, etc. These are basic, undeniable principles of good human interaction. But. But. Consider an alternative hypothesis; that the author really did experience a bit of nasty, petty sexism. In that case, responses like yours at best sweep the problem under the rug, and at worst patronizingly pat the woman on the head and tell her not to be hysterical. In other words, if this is a real problem, your undeniably good advice actually isn't constructive towards fixing the root issue. It's allowing it to perpetuate.
- zzalpha 11y ago
  In other words, if this is a real problem, your undeniably good advice actually isn't constructive towards fixing the root issue. It's allowing it to perpetuate. And raging on Tumblr is? Look, if there's some deeply embedded injustice going on, here, it's not evident from this single exchange. If this single exchange is part of a broader pattern with this person, that's something a manager and HR can help deal with, and you would be very well advised to keep cool in order to avoid escalating the situation further. Maintaining the moral high-ground isn't just about ideals, it's also practical advice for winning out in an exchange like this. If this exchange is part of a larger, company-wide or societal trend, speaking about it rationally is still the better course as, right now, it's very hard to take this person seriously. Without additional context, this just looks like an insecure 20-something who's just struggling with their first workplace confrontation. To some up: I can think of no scenario where behaving as this person has done will improve the situation, whether it's a one-off, or something systemic. Edit: Incidentally, it's entirely possible that this person raged out on their blog as part of processing this whole thing, then stepped back and started looking for a constructive path forward. If that's the case, great. Everything I've written, here, presumes that this post represents their definitive reaction to the situation, which may be entirely unfair.
  - lukev 11y ago
    If there is a systemic problem, then yes, loud, fervent and frequent verbal raging from all quarters is an appropriate response. "Keep your head down" has never been a constructive strategy for minority groups targeted by discrimination. Look, I don't know what the truth is here. To some extent I don't care. But I do know that there is a pervasive problem with sexism in tech, and I know that every time you or I publicly comment on it, we take a side. If you show support, you're sending the message to everyone that that discrimination is not cool. If you publicly undermine the reliability or emotional state of the reporter, you are actively re-affirming the status quo and denying that there is a problem. If you doubt the reliability of someone, do it privately. Don't comment at all. As it is, I can only assume that you actively oppose the growing movement to try and solve this problem. Speech acts matter. Even online.

angersock 11y ago

"There is a long, long list of the kinds of people I don’t befriend. I don’t generally befriend people with whom I don’t quickly click. I don’t befriend people with largely different sets of values, political views, interests, or senses of humor. I don’t befriend people from whom I get bad vibes. And, I don’t befriend people who I just don’t fucking like." Somebody so deadset against getting along with people and making friends probably shouldn't be surprised or angry that her coworker is concerned that they aren't getting along.

soylentcola 11y ago
Eh, I think the idea is that you get to a point where you can have professional/working relationships with others even if you don't really like them. I know I have. It would be nice if all of my coworkers and collaborators were my best buds but in reality, you run into all kinds and sometimes you just don't like people you work with. And that's fine. It's a mark of professionalism when you can still take care of a job even if you think someone's politics or personality are incompatible with yours.

exstudent2 11y ago

"Tangentially, I think the entire college sports organization is embarrassing, antiquated and Rapey with a capital “R.” It drives tuitions up and gives a small niche of bumbling bro-bots the lifelong expectation that they will be able to skirt through life without brains, manners, or ever learning the idea of earned respect. “I can twirl a basketball on my finger, how dare you not want to fuck me.” And so on." I would feel uncomfortable around her too if she brought this attitude into the work place. Side note: Please use contrast in your design choices if you're going to write multi paragraph essays. My eyes hurt!

mahouse 11y ago

This post is so cliché-y I am having a hard time believing it hasn't been automatically generated by Markov chains.

cballard 11y ago

> The coworker in question is a heterosexual white male. My manager is a heterosexual white male. There are five other people in my organization in the office where I work. They are all heterosexual white males. How is this person so sure of this? I have no idea what the orientation of anyone I work with is... I can eliminate "homosexual" or "heterosexual" for most of them, as they have mentioned ____friends, but certainly cannot eliminate "bisexual"...

eevilspock 11y ago

Wow, all of the comments that precede mine are an embarrassment to HN, demonstrate the swift defensive attacks that preclude any possibility of dialogue, and reinforce the notion many have of bro-cognitive dissonance. Turning gray in 3, 2, 1...

exstudent2 11y ago
You would want to work with someone that says all of college sports is "Rapey"? I'm sorry, that's not professional or mature.
- strangecasts 11y ago
  I'm sorry, that's not professional or mature. Since when is liking sports a professional requirement?
  - exstudent2 11y ago
    I don't like sports. Actually I hate them. Calling anyone/anything "Rapey" is what's unprofessional (to the extreme).
    - strangecasts 11y ago
      It's her private opinion though?
      - exstudent2 11y ago
        Not when she publishes it to Tumblr.
- eevilspock 11y ago
  It is her opinion, and it is hyperbole. But the gist of it I get. The sexist attitudes toward women in male dominated areas, from fraternities to sports to the military, are well known, and often these attitudes generate "rapey" behavior, if not outright rape. From her description he seems to have that kind of attitude, including calling women "chicks". But as she states in her article, she kept to herself. There is no indication that she share this point of view with him, and more indication that she did not. She specifically stated he knows nothing about her. In that same paragraph she talked about his innapropriate and unprofessional behavior. If you had any sympathy for what it might be like being a woman, you might be a little more forgiving of her hyperbole, and less forgiving of his calling women "chicks". You might have been taken aback that he went to the manager because he felt "uncomfortable", pointing out that the person who is most justified in feeling uncomfortable was her.

hypnos1 11y ago

If this kind of post can be dismissed as cliche, its an indication of a problem in the industry and not with the writer. The commenters that preceded me would do well to remember her article is a venting on Tumblr, and not the conversation she had with her co-workers or manager. Denigrating her tumblr post for being an inappropriate work attitude misses the point.

exstudent2 11y ago
What problem in the industry do you think this is pointing out? Someone told their manager that they were uncomfortable working with her, and she said it's sexism. Seems to me the co-worker did the right thing by going to their manager instead of being a jerk/passive aggressive. People probably think it's cliche because she uses the air conditioning is patriarchy argument.
- lukev 11y ago
  What problem is this pointing out? Sexism, obviously. And your response is another, classic example of the same problem; you're willing to give the guy in the story the benefit of the doubt while summarily dismissing the woman's complaint. In other words, in a literal case of "he said, she said" you side with the male by default. Uncool.
  - exstudent2 11y ago
    I'm literally going off of the facts she states in her post. The guy said he's uncomfortable around her. This is not a gendered issue, this is an interpersonal issue and not even a bad one. This co-worker told the manager about an issue he perceived but he in no way treated the author of this piece maliciously.
    - hypnos1 11y ago
      The facts you're ignoring are his characterization of female colleagues and contacts as "chicks", and allegedly repeated behavior of talking about his sexual encounters in the office. This is the type of behavior that can lead to a hostile work environment suit.

dudul 11y ago

I totally understand why Matt would feel uncomfortable around this person.

Mz 11y ago

I am not upvoting this. I would like to see less of this on HN. As a woman, I sympathize with her frustration. I understand her anger. I think this could go over well in a different forum. It will not play well here. It will not help further productive discussion about a real path forward. It frustrates me that this kind of stuff gets upvoted -- often far more than more even-handed writing that looks for a real path forward instead of someone to blame -- and then gets a lot of dismissive commentary. This only helps reinforce battle lines. It doesn't generally make men sympathetic to what women face; it doesn't propose an effective path forward; it doesn't provide new tools or mental models for genuinely improving things. Men blame women for the fact that women feel crapped on. Women blame men for the fact that women feel crapped on. Neither of these positions gets us to a place where women stop feeling crapped on. Neither gives a new way to view the problem space so we can stop pointing fingers and start working together better.

devereaux 11y ago
Nothing else to say - you said it all. Not adding to the fire is the best thing. If I were to nitpick, I'd say some interventions are appropriate, but only when adding context or information, and when the tone of the conversation makes them welcome. (EDIT- spelling and clarity)

tcdent 11y ago

How is this sexism? Because it's between a girl and a guy? This could play out exactly the same between two females or two males. This is nothing more than a communication breakdown. "Matt thinks..." because Matt has to come to some plausible conclusion in his own mind. Nevermind if it's wrong, it's the best explanation he can find and we should respect that. Now it's both of your responsibility, as social human beings wishing to maintain a professional relationship, to honestly convey your position to each other. If his accusation is blatantly false, don't use it to fuel your arguments, speak from your understanding of the situation. Now listen to his. "Oh dear, aren't we silly, going off in tangents in our minds without any concrete evidence of these things actually being true." "I'm glad we talked." Also, rattling off 100 ways in which you hate Matt is suspect. I don't like any of those things either, but I try to refrain from shit talking. If Matt wants to talk sports, I'll entertain it. Eventually he'll learn how shallow my interests are, maybe via body language or even a direct statement, and we'll discuss something else from then on. The part where you offensively generalize what you think are typical male and female interests? There's the sexism.

rtz12 11y ago

Who ever thought that grey text on white background is a good idea? I would have maybe read this ridiculous article, but I can't, as my eyes are bleeding.

sssilver 11y ago

> The most personal thing he knows about me is my dog’s name, and I know even less about him. So why isn’t he comfortable around me? For me that would be exactly why I am uncomfortable with someone I work and spend time with every day.

greenyoda 11y ago
It's entirely possible to have a professional relationship with your co-workers without them being your friends. I get along very well with my co-workers on a professional level (e.g., I'm always there to help if asked), but I socialize with only a handful of them, and very few know anything about my personal life.
- sssilver 11y ago
  It's certainly possible, but that would make me personally feel very uncomfortable around these people, and I would eventually float towards working in a more tightly coupled team with relationships that transcend work. That being said, many people actually prefer having that distance. For me I find that distance bothers me, and that may be a cultural thing.

DrScump 11y ago

These questions come to mind immediately: 1) why is the gender of Matt relevant to the complaint at hand? 2) why is the gender of your other coworkers relevant to the complaint at hand? 3) why is the sexual preference of any of them relevant to the complaint at hand? (note that later the writer states explicitly that she does not know Matt's dating life). 4) "majority-dominated"? Aren't females the majority? 5) why do you find only female comedians funny? 6) comments like, "dumb basketball game" and categorizing sports are "Rapey" (!) are indicative of bias to an overtly inflammatory degree. Even if the writer thinks she never voices such opinions, I'm guessing that they "leak out" all over the place, Here's a key example: "... most importantly and egregiously, pretend to accept and tolerate conversation and ideas that I find degrading, disgusting, and sexist." Did such conversation actually happen with these specific coworkers, or does the writer just assume such by lumping all Heterosexual. White. Males. into one rotting bin? ? Explicitly sexist (let alone "rapey") conversation in the workplace is actionable. There is very low tolerance for behavior contributing to a hostile workplace pretty much everywhere in the U.S. nowadays (for legal exposure, if nothing else) -- the author gives no indication that she ever initiated or pursued any report of inappropriate behavior to H.R. or superiors. Anyway, a narrative riddled with comments like, "bro-bots", "rage-y, racist white dudes", "straight male rage against women", or "vast and exasperating patchwork of male insecurity" indicates zero interest in constructive, rational dialogue. In closing, she includes, "I vented relentlessly to my girlfriends and my gay friends...". I found it unsurprising that she lacks straight male friends with whom she feels capable of candid conversation.

mailslot 11y ago

I have been on the opposite side, working in a female dominated office of fifty employees. I was one of seven males, myself interning during summer vacation. I was once called into HR because I made someone feel uncomfortable by not saying hello to them that morning. I was intent on putting out a fire that was causing $1,000.00's worth of losses per minute. That was not important, because I made someone feel uncomfortable. My discomfort was secondary in all situations that summer. If you think that sexism only works one way, think again. I wasn't part of the girls club. Many, certainly not all, of these women conducted their "locker room" talk in my presence. There were inappropriate remarks, vulgar remarks, gentle teasing and even full blown harassment. Any man would lose a career over some of the things they'd talk about... or my ass they'd grab. Professionalism is professionalism. One thing that stands out though, the women would continually accuse the men of the office of being sexist pigs, myself included.