4 ms·

That's some next level anthropomorphism right there. "Slaughter"? "Murder"? Why don't you just call them "Feline Nazi Stormtroopers Baby Killers" and take the

by kjs3 11y ago

That's some next level anthropomorphism right there. "Slaughter"? "Murder"? Why don't you just call them "Feline Nazi Stormtroopers Baby Killers" and take the hyperbole to 11? Cat's don't "murder" anything; murder requires cognition and premeditation. They aren't "programmed" in a way that the programming can be changed; they're apex predators and they kill things that are smaller than they are and have for hundreds of thousands of years. It's going to be deeply disturbing to you, I'm sure, but nature, far beyond cats, doesn't really work according to your apparent understanding of "the rules".

wavefunction 11y ago
Cats aren't really apex predators though. Dogs kill them, foxes kill them, coyotes kill them, I've watched a hawk kill a cat in my neighborhood when I was a child... I don't know of many predators that seem to kill just to kill like cats seem to? I'm certainly not claiming to be an expert in this regard but all my dogs that have killed animals appeared to do it as an instinct to "provide" for the social group while I've known cats that appeared to kill not due to hunger or any inherent interest in bringing a "present" to anyone like they sometimes do. I guess I wonder what your response would be to these thoughts, as you might provide clarity to someone with my imperfect understanding. This is sincere as well: I know that what I've written could be construed as sarcastic but I'm not interested in anything other than sincerity.
- kjs3 11y ago
  Apex predator doesn't mean nothing else kills them, especially when you're mixing domains. An animal that's unmatched in one domain might be distinctly disadvantaged in another (e.g. polar bears in a vanishing ice cap). But quibbling over that definition is willfully obfuscating the point. > I don't know of many predators that seem to kill just to kill like cats seem to? I've seen a dog kill another dog and walk away. I've seen crows kill a squirrel and only pick out it's eyes. Hell, I've seen a squirrel kill all the baby birds in a nest and only eat one, in case you didn't think squirrels ate meat. Does that mean dogs, crows and squirrels are murderers or do it for fun? The problem with cats is they live in close proximity to us, so we see first hand what they're up to, and they have a set of routine behaviors that don't exactly match our human perception of how predators are "suppose" to behave. But instead of trying to understand them in context, some people anthropomorphise them and make the cat "evil", a "murderer" or whatever.
bglazer 11y ago
I think you're assuming the poster is naive or stupid based on a few very evocative verbs. That doesn't seem fair and gives your post a harsh tone. I imagine their distress is not that their cat is an evil murderer, but that their "murder" of small animals is destructive to the ecosystem.
- kjs3 11y ago
  I think the nativity is clear, and while I don't assume stupidity I don't rule it out. The posters entire screed is lifted from any number of anti-feline polemics that have come out after a study in Nature found in a relatively small sample group cats killed things. Shocker. And the study pointed out that it was mostly "free-range" cats, not your house cat doing the killing. http://www.nature.com/ncomms/journal/v4/n1/full/ncomms2380.html http://www.nature.com/ncomms/journal/v4/n1/full/ncomms2380.h...
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
jo909 11y ago
Whatever the nomenclature, if a pet repeatedly kills wild animals that's just not acceptable A dog that uncontrollably kills wildlife would not be allowed outside unleashed, and where I live can (legally) be shot by the next hunter that sees it. Yes, nature can be brutal. But pets are not part of nature, they are part of civilisation. A dog shitting on the sidewalk could also be called "natural". But it creates a problem, so we try to prevent it. Cats and every other pet has to be held to the same standard. The owner has to prevent the pet from creating a problem. If a pet can not be held in any way that doesn't harm the pet but is also compatible with other humans, other pets, other peoples property or wildlife: please don't get that pet. (As I see it indoor cats can be very happy animals and exercise their hunting instincts with toys just fine, and I'm not arguing about cats, just about pets in general)

by kjs3 11y ago

wavefunction 11y ago

Cats aren't really apex predators though. Dogs kill them, foxes kill them, coyotes kill them, I've watched a hawk kill a cat in my neighborhood when I was a child... I don't know of many predators that seem to kill just to kill like cats seem to? I'm certainly not claiming to be an expert in this regard but all my dogs that have killed animals appeared to do it as an instinct to "provide" for the social group while I've known cats that appeared to kill not due to hunger or any inherent interest in bringing a "present" to anyone like they sometimes do. I guess I wonder what your response would be to these thoughts, as you might provide clarity to someone with my imperfect understanding. This is sincere as well: I know that what I've written could be construed as sarcastic but I'm not interested in anything other than sincerity.

kjs3 11y ago
Apex predator doesn't mean nothing else kills them, especially when you're mixing domains. An animal that's unmatched in one domain might be distinctly disadvantaged in another (e.g. polar bears in a vanishing ice cap). But quibbling over that definition is willfully obfuscating the point. > I don't know of many predators that seem to kill just to kill like cats seem to? I've seen a dog kill another dog and walk away. I've seen crows kill a squirrel and only pick out it's eyes. Hell, I've seen a squirrel kill all the baby birds in a nest and only eat one, in case you didn't think squirrels ate meat. Does that mean dogs, crows and squirrels are murderers or do it for fun? The problem with cats is they live in close proximity to us, so we see first hand what they're up to, and they have a set of routine behaviors that don't exactly match our human perception of how predators are "suppose" to behave. But instead of trying to understand them in context, some people anthropomorphise them and make the cat "evil", a "murderer" or whatever.

bglazer 11y ago

I think you're assuming the poster is naive or stupid based on a few very evocative verbs. That doesn't seem fair and gives your post a harsh tone. I imagine their distress is not that their cat is an evil murderer, but that their "murder" of small animals is destructive to the ecosystem.

kjs3 11y ago
I think the nativity is clear, and while I don't assume stupidity I don't rule it out. The posters entire screed is lifted from any number of anti-feline polemics that have come out after a study in Nature found in a relatively small sample group cats killed things. Shocker. And the study pointed out that it was mostly "free-range" cats, not your house cat doing the killing. http://www.nature.com/ncomms/journal/v4/n1/full/ncomms2380.html http://www.nature.com/ncomms/journal/v4/n1/full/ncomms2380.h...
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]

jo909 11y ago

Whatever the nomenclature, if a pet repeatedly kills wild animals that's just not acceptable A dog that uncontrollably kills wildlife would not be allowed outside unleashed, and where I live can (legally) be shot by the next hunter that sees it. Yes, nature can be brutal. But pets are not part of nature, they are part of civilisation. A dog shitting on the sidewalk could also be called "natural". But it creates a problem, so we try to prevent it. Cats and every other pet has to be held to the same standard. The owner has to prevent the pet from creating a problem. If a pet can not be held in any way that doesn't harm the pet but is also compatible with other humans, other pets, other peoples property or wildlife: please don't get that pet. (As I see it indoor cats can be very happy animals and exercise their hunting instincts with toys just fine, and I'm not arguing about cats, just about pets in general)