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This whole article plays out as a ringing endorsement for the ketogenic diet[1]. Most people don't realize it but a diet high in carbohydrates and sugars is le

by ihsw 11y ago

This whole article plays out as a ringing endorsement for the ketogenic diet[1]. Most people don't realize it but a diet high in carbohydrates and sugars is lethal, and hundreds of millions of people suffer from it on a regular basis. It's a serious lifestyle change but honestly I think many would benefit from it significantly, as adhering to it requires a basic level of self-directed education into what you eat and why it matters. It's not just "eating more fruits and vegetables is good and eating less pizza is better." [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/keto https://www.reddit.com/r/keto

trollingineer 11y ago
You could also do something more reasonable like avoiding processed carbs and sugar as much as possible. I'm not knocking keto since I've never done it but I found a common sense diet that is sustainable is the best diet. Kudos to those who can go keto for their entire lives. I certainly can't. But that doesn't mean I can't be healthy. Ultimately being healthy isn't rocket science and doesn't require some esoteric diet. Don't eat shitty food. Move/exercise more. And lift heavy things if you want to get stronger.
- ihsw 11y ago
  You're absolutely right, simply eating healthy and avoiding shitty food is often-times easier and more beneficial, however for weight loss and weight management I would say that keto is more effective. After adhering to keto for some time, I've moved to a common sense diet and exercise regularly, and I've never been in better shape. The rationale behind advocating for keto is that I honestly think it's easier for most people to adhere to it than to stick to a healthy diet and exercise regimen.
beachstartup 11y ago
i've lost 25 pounds on keto and low-carb. some days i eat more carbs than others because pure keto is extremely hard to sustain especially when you eat socially and aren't a teetotaler. i need to lose about 15 more to get back to my college freshman weight, so i was at the high end of 'overweight' and close to 'obese' if you look at the official classifications. even as a keto fan, at the end of the day the most important thing is eating less calories than you expend if you want to lose a significant amount of weight in a 6-12 month period - which really means, the most important thing is for people to actually count their calories. when i first started counting there would be some days where i'd eat 4000+ calories! it's amazing i wasn't 100 pounds overweight. there came a point where i asked myself, "why the hell am i eating this much?" after seeing 3000+ on the graph for a few days in a row, and just decided not to anymore. that was an extremely important point in the process. having to face the quantified view of your terrible choices every day has a profound effect on your decision making.
yodsanklai 11y ago
> It's not just "eating more fruits and vegetables is good and eating less pizza is better." That would be a very good start. There's too little scientific evidence that the ketogenic diet is beneficial. Maybe I'm wrong but it looks more like a fad supported by some nutrition gurus. It's an extreme change for an uncertain result. On the other hand, cutting out the obvious junk food is more easily achievable (but not easy) and likely to be beneficial.
- ihsw 11y ago
  There is a fair bit of science behind it: * British Journal of Nutrition did a study[1] whose results indicated that "achieve better long-term body weight and cardiovascular risk factor management when compared with individuals assigned to a conventional low-fat diet" * a Swedish government advisor group at the Council on Health Technology assessment found[2] that "the nation would benefit most from a low-carb, high fat, ketogenic diet" where the study indicated benefits include "improved blood sugar, reduced body weight, and enhanced high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol without adverse effects on low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol" Rejection of popular low-fat diet dogma is increasing in prevalence among the general populace, nutritional academia, and government-supported dietary guidelines. [1] http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=9016489 http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPag... [2] http://www.examiner.com/article/sweden-first-to-battle-obesity-with-low-carb-high-fat-ketogenic-diet http://www.examiner.com/article/sweden-first-to-battle-obesi...
DiabloD3 11y ago
I jumped on the Paleo thing, because everything doctors told me to do was either wrong (eat your whole grains! eat less meat and less fat!), or impossible (go run flat out for extended periods while you weigh 340 pounds, burn tons of calories even though your body is pre-diabetic and stuck in grain/sugar-induced starvation-but-you're-a-lardass mode, so good luck getting those calories out of your fat cells to actually go burn them...) So, yeah, modern western society? Go fuck yourself for lying to me for the first 30 years of my life. I'm now skinny, and you're all still fat. Being fat runs in your family? No, your problem is NO ONE runs in your family.
- speeder 11y ago
  I developed "Paleo" diet on my own, before I knew real Paleo diet existed. I have thyroid disease (That is genetic, so in my case my family is "at fault", at least I am not fucked up as my aunt that ended having thyroid cancer and diabetes). One of the first symptoms that shows in cases like mine, is skyrocketing cholesterol, immediately this resulted in doctors telling me to eat less meat, and more sugary stuff (fruits, vegetables, etc...), when I did what they wanted, my cholesterol don't changed, and my triglycerides shot up too. (mind you, this happened when I was 14 years old!) I joined a Kung Fu academy, to try to lose the misterious weight I started gaining, I got stronger, and heavier (ie: I built up muscle, but didn't get rid of the extra water and fat). I was alright, but I moved to another city due to college reasons, so I needed a new sport, doctors (and physical education teachers) recommended cardio, and high-reps exercise. Also I went to dieticians, that recommended whole grains and whatnot. My weight kept rising, and I started to weaken, at the gym after some months I could lift less weight than when I started. Then I learned how the body process nutrients, for example eating cholesterol don't make it rise, the body disassemble it and stores the components, later if the body needs cholesterol it assembles it back, primarily out of carbohydrates. So I theorized: if I dump carbohydrates, maybe things will get better. I then asked the professional opinions, they all told me I was wrong, mad, whatever, and that I would fuck-up my heart, and that cabohidrates were necessary. I still went ahead and started to eat at lunch only foliage vegetables (lettuce for example), carrots (because I like them a lot) and some source of protein (cheese, meat, sausage, whatever). And at dinner I ate only a can of tuna. My cholesterol suddenly dropped to high, but non-critical levels (it went from 280 to 195, with 200 being the "critical" level threshold, and I think 120 is the "safe" threshold), my triglycerides finally came back to what it was when I was 14, and my weight dropped from 130kg to 90kg (still too much though, I was supposed to weight 70kg). Also I started to design my own exercise programs, and do heavy-lifting with free weights and low reps, and skip cardio completely for the most part (I was already reasonably active enough, I don't own a car, so anywhere I needed to go I walked). For the first time gym felt like something that wasn't pointless, I finally started to get heavier weights over time, feel better, and get strong enough to do some day-to-day things better (Example: before this I could not grip safely in my hand a 2 liter coca-cola bottle safely if it was full, I would drop it, thus to pour drinks I used to put the bottle on the edge of the table, hold the top with one hand, the cup with another, and slowly tilt it, now I can just do like a normal person, and get the bottle with one hand in the middle and pour normally). I am still too weak, and too overweight though, I finally started taking thyroid meds, and they helped a little, but not much, I am struggling to find a decent medic... At least, I am not that old (I am 27), so I still have time to fix up my life, but is still a fucked up situation.
glossyscr 11y ago
Glad to see that somebody points this out. It's alarming when I see all the chubby faces around me painstakingly eating their salad and going to the gym but not having the slightest clue of nutrition. It's not about eating less calories or eating low-fat. Or fruits or vegan. Or doing more exercise. It's always about carbs--avoiding carbs is the key. The most common education gaps: 1. Carbs are like crack, the more you eat the more you thrive for them, you think you are hungry but you aren't. And this is the no 1 reason that most cannot stop their obesity, they are hooked on carbs. Just go to the next supermarket and check which products have the biggest shelf space: those which have addictive ingredients, booze and sweets. 2. You have to heavily compensate carbs with protein and fat when you do low carb/keto. Eg, if I go below 70g carbs a day, I need 70g protein and 130g (!) fat a day to compensate the lower carbs intake. If you are not doing so you become hungry. Most think that fat is bad and makes you obese, what a fallacy. As long you keep you carb intake low you can consume tons of fat and you will stay forever slim. Actually it is rather a problem to get that amounts of fat in mainstream food. With protein it's even worse and more expensive. 3. The older you get the harder your body can handle carbs. People think it's normal that they get a belly at some point and they can't do anything about it. Your metabolism changes over the years and you have just to learn to manage carbs. You cannot totally avoid carbs, you still need them but know how to control the volume. As the parent wrote, go to Reddit's Keto sub, probably the most advanced keto/low carb group. And it's not a niche diet. Besides, I also found that when I am on carbs I am ultra ADD not able to focus on anything. EDIT: Thanks for the downvote, I would love to know why
- yodsanklai 11y ago
  You say "Carbs are like crack, the more you eat the more your thrive for them, you think you are hungry but you aren't." Most official nutrition guidelines go along the following line: "An optimum diet contains 45 to 60% of energy from carbohydrates per day for all those over two years of age." http://www.eufic.org/article/en/nutrition/carbohydrates/expid/basics-carbohydrates/ http://www.eufic.org/article/en/nutrition/carbohydrates/expi... I know the ketogenic diet is popular in some circles but it goes against all the official recommendations. I understand that official recommendations are not always correct, but when there's a consensus in the medical community, I would think twice before blindly following (what I perceive as) a fad.
woah 11y ago
Honestly, everybody pushing their niche diet says the same thing.
- mistermann 11y ago
  That's pretty lazy thinking, lot of people say lots of things, regardless of the particular subject. Some are correct, some are incorrect. Which is this?
  - DanBC 11y ago
    A lot of the keto people make the same mistakes we made in the past - demonising some foods, promoting other foods in their place, ignoring mainstream science while also ignoring the severe limitations of all nutrition science, especially to often piss-poor studies they link to. It's not all like that, you find some people posting links to useful research and reasonable advice.
    - mistermann 11y ago
      Well, it depends on what your immediate goal is, if it is to lose weight, them demonizing certain foods I think isn't that inappropriate. I'm curious what mainstream science is ignored though?
      - DanBC 11y ago
        Except in the 80s we all demonized fat as evil, which meant food producers reduced the amount of fat in their food but substituted sugars; or we demonized saturated fats as evil, which meant food producers moved to transfats (which was catastrophic for public health). Keto advocates ignore any suggestion that meat may increase risk of cancer; that saturated fats might not be the thing you get most of your energy from; that controlling salt intake is sensible for some people. Science has moved on all of those things, but keto tends to see that movement, and then reject whatever the new stance is because broscience.
        11y ago
geoka9 11y ago
Forget keto (or any other diet for that matter). Just maintain a calorie deficit if you want to lose weight. The easiest way to do that is to lower carbs and compensate with higher protein/fat intake. Treat carbs as fuel - if you exercise a lot and/or have a lot of stress on a particular day, then you want them. If you are a couch potato on that day, you want to limit them. If you start craving comfort food, drink some water/have a scoop of peanut butter. Then wait half an hour - most probably the cravings will be gone. Eat lots of salad/celery/veggies just because they are good for you. If you start having stool problems, add a couple of table spoons of wheat bran to your daily food intake. Make sure to take it with lots of water - e.g. soak the bran in hot water before eating it. For further weight loss, consider intermittent fasting. I like this protocol: http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html But that should come later, once you are more or less lean. Good luck! Weight loss is really easier than it seems to be. All you need is to get into the routine and from there on it's just a question of time before you become lean.
nvader 11y ago
An article I recently read helped me make sense of the low carb/low fat dichotomy we see in the literature, both peer reviewed and popular, with plenty of anecdotal evidence on both sides. The flowchart at http://rockstarresearch.com/these-5-genes-predict-what-kind-of-diet-and-exercise-is-best-for-your-body-2/ http://rockstarresearch.com/these-5-genes-predict-what-kind-... helps you determine the better dieting approach of the two from your 23andMe results. It appears your genotype determines which you best respond to. According to the flowchart, I should best respond to a low fat diet: and I have seen great results from sticking to that. On the other hand, I saw no results from almost a year of keto (with strong social support: must of my co-workers were on the same diet, which made sticking to it easy), which is in line with the predictions of that chart.

by ihsw 11y ago

trollingineer 11y ago

You could also do something more reasonable like avoiding processed carbs and sugar as much as possible. I'm not knocking keto since I've never done it but I found a common sense diet that is sustainable is the best diet. Kudos to those who can go keto for their entire lives. I certainly can't. But that doesn't mean I can't be healthy. Ultimately being healthy isn't rocket science and doesn't require some esoteric diet. Don't eat shitty food. Move/exercise more. And lift heavy things if you want to get stronger.

ihsw 11y ago
You're absolutely right, simply eating healthy and avoiding shitty food is often-times easier and more beneficial, however for weight loss and weight management I would say that keto is more effective. After adhering to keto for some time, I've moved to a common sense diet and exercise regularly, and I've never been in better shape. The rationale behind advocating for keto is that I honestly think it's easier for most people to adhere to it than to stick to a healthy diet and exercise regimen.

beachstartup 11y ago

i've lost 25 pounds on keto and low-carb. some days i eat more carbs than others because pure keto is extremely hard to sustain especially when you eat socially and aren't a teetotaler. i need to lose about 15 more to get back to my college freshman weight, so i was at the high end of 'overweight' and close to 'obese' if you look at the official classifications. even as a keto fan, at the end of the day the most important thing is eating less calories than you expend if you want to lose a significant amount of weight in a 6-12 month period - which really means, the most important thing is for people to actually count their calories. when i first started counting there would be some days where i'd eat 4000+ calories! it's amazing i wasn't 100 pounds overweight. there came a point where i asked myself, "why the hell am i eating this much?" after seeing 3000+ on the graph for a few days in a row, and just decided not to anymore. that was an extremely important point in the process. having to face the quantified view of your terrible choices every day has a profound effect on your decision making.

yodsanklai 11y ago

> It's not just "eating more fruits and vegetables is good and eating less pizza is better." That would be a very good start. There's too little scientific evidence that the ketogenic diet is beneficial. Maybe I'm wrong but it looks more like a fad supported by some nutrition gurus. It's an extreme change for an uncertain result. On the other hand, cutting out the obvious junk food is more easily achievable (but not easy) and likely to be beneficial.

ihsw 11y ago
There is a fair bit of science behind it: * British Journal of Nutrition did a study[1] whose results indicated that "achieve better long-term body weight and cardiovascular risk factor management when compared with individuals assigned to a conventional low-fat diet" * a Swedish government advisor group at the Council on Health Technology assessment found[2] that "the nation would benefit most from a low-carb, high fat, ketogenic diet" where the study indicated benefits include "improved blood sugar, reduced body weight, and enhanced high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol without adverse effects on low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol" Rejection of popular low-fat diet dogma is increasing in prevalence among the general populace, nutritional academia, and government-supported dietary guidelines. [1] http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=9016489 http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPag... [2] http://www.examiner.com/article/sweden-first-to-battle-obesity-with-low-carb-high-fat-ketogenic-diet http://www.examiner.com/article/sweden-first-to-battle-obesi...

DiabloD3 11y ago

I jumped on the Paleo thing, because everything doctors told me to do was either wrong (eat your whole grains! eat less meat and less fat!), or impossible (go run flat out for extended periods while you weigh 340 pounds, burn tons of calories even though your body is pre-diabetic and stuck in grain/sugar-induced starvation-but-you're-a-lardass mode, so good luck getting those calories out of your fat cells to actually go burn them...) So, yeah, modern western society? Go fuck yourself for lying to me for the first 30 years of my life. I'm now skinny, and you're all still fat. Being fat runs in your family? No, your problem is NO ONE runs in your family.

speeder 11y ago
I developed "Paleo" diet on my own, before I knew real Paleo diet existed. I have thyroid disease (That is genetic, so in my case my family is "at fault", at least I am not fucked up as my aunt that ended having thyroid cancer and diabetes). One of the first symptoms that shows in cases like mine, is skyrocketing cholesterol, immediately this resulted in doctors telling me to eat less meat, and more sugary stuff (fruits, vegetables, etc...), when I did what they wanted, my cholesterol don't changed, and my triglycerides shot up too. (mind you, this happened when I was 14 years old!) I joined a Kung Fu academy, to try to lose the misterious weight I started gaining, I got stronger, and heavier (ie: I built up muscle, but didn't get rid of the extra water and fat). I was alright, but I moved to another city due to college reasons, so I needed a new sport, doctors (and physical education teachers) recommended cardio, and high-reps exercise. Also I went to dieticians, that recommended whole grains and whatnot. My weight kept rising, and I started to weaken, at the gym after some months I could lift less weight than when I started. Then I learned how the body process nutrients, for example eating cholesterol don't make it rise, the body disassemble it and stores the components, later if the body needs cholesterol it assembles it back, primarily out of carbohydrates. So I theorized: if I dump carbohydrates, maybe things will get better. I then asked the professional opinions, they all told me I was wrong, mad, whatever, and that I would fuck-up my heart, and that cabohidrates were necessary. I still went ahead and started to eat at lunch only foliage vegetables (lettuce for example), carrots (because I like them a lot) and some source of protein (cheese, meat, sausage, whatever). And at dinner I ate only a can of tuna. My cholesterol suddenly dropped to high, but non-critical levels (it went from 280 to 195, with 200 being the "critical" level threshold, and I think 120 is the "safe" threshold), my triglycerides finally came back to what it was when I was 14, and my weight dropped from 130kg to 90kg (still too much though, I was supposed to weight 70kg). Also I started to design my own exercise programs, and do heavy-lifting with free weights and low reps, and skip cardio completely for the most part (I was already reasonably active enough, I don't own a car, so anywhere I needed to go I walked). For the first time gym felt like something that wasn't pointless, I finally started to get heavier weights over time, feel better, and get strong enough to do some day-to-day things better (Example: before this I could not grip safely in my hand a 2 liter coca-cola bottle safely if it was full, I would drop it, thus to pour drinks I used to put the bottle on the edge of the table, hold the top with one hand, the cup with another, and slowly tilt it, now I can just do like a normal person, and get the bottle with one hand in the middle and pour normally). I am still too weak, and too overweight though, I finally started taking thyroid meds, and they helped a little, but not much, I am struggling to find a decent medic... At least, I am not that old (I am 27), so I still have time to fix up my life, but is still a fucked up situation.

glossyscr 11y ago

Glad to see that somebody points this out. It's alarming when I see all the chubby faces around me painstakingly eating their salad and going to the gym but not having the slightest clue of nutrition. It's not about eating less calories or eating low-fat. Or fruits or vegan. Or doing more exercise. It's always about carbs--avoiding carbs is the key. The most common education gaps: 1. Carbs are like crack, the more you eat the more you thrive for them, you think you are hungry but you aren't. And this is the no 1 reason that most cannot stop their obesity, they are hooked on carbs. Just go to the next supermarket and check which products have the biggest shelf space: those which have addictive ingredients, booze and sweets. 2. You have to heavily compensate carbs with protein and fat when you do low carb/keto. Eg, if I go below 70g carbs a day, I need 70g protein and 130g (!) fat a day to compensate the lower carbs intake. If you are not doing so you become hungry. Most think that fat is bad and makes you obese, what a fallacy. As long you keep you carb intake low you can consume tons of fat and you will stay forever slim. Actually it is rather a problem to get that amounts of fat in mainstream food. With protein it's even worse and more expensive. 3. The older you get the harder your body can handle carbs. People think it's normal that they get a belly at some point and they can't do anything about it. Your metabolism changes over the years and you have just to learn to manage carbs. You cannot totally avoid carbs, you still need them but know how to control the volume. As the parent wrote, go to Reddit's Keto sub, probably the most advanced keto/low carb group. And it's not a niche diet. Besides, I also found that when I am on carbs I am ultra ADD not able to focus on anything. EDIT: Thanks for the downvote, I would love to know why

yodsanklai 11y ago
You say "Carbs are like crack, the more you eat the more your thrive for them, you think you are hungry but you aren't." Most official nutrition guidelines go along the following line: "An optimum diet contains 45 to 60% of energy from carbohydrates per day for all those over two years of age." http://www.eufic.org/article/en/nutrition/carbohydrates/expid/basics-carbohydrates/ http://www.eufic.org/article/en/nutrition/carbohydrates/expi... I know the ketogenic diet is popular in some circles but it goes against all the official recommendations. I understand that official recommendations are not always correct, but when there's a consensus in the medical community, I would think twice before blindly following (what I perceive as) a fad.

woah 11y ago

Honestly, everybody pushing their niche diet says the same thing.

mistermann 11y ago
That's pretty lazy thinking, lot of people say lots of things, regardless of the particular subject. Some are correct, some are incorrect. Which is this?
- DanBC 11y ago
  A lot of the keto people make the same mistakes we made in the past - demonising some foods, promoting other foods in their place, ignoring mainstream science while also ignoring the severe limitations of all nutrition science, especially to often piss-poor studies they link to. It's not all like that, you find some people posting links to useful research and reasonable advice.
  - mistermann 11y ago
    Well, it depends on what your immediate goal is, if it is to lose weight, them demonizing certain foods I think isn't that inappropriate. I'm curious what mainstream science is ignored though?
    - DanBC 11y ago
      Except in the 80s we all demonized fat as evil, which meant food producers reduced the amount of fat in their food but substituted sugars; or we demonized saturated fats as evil, which meant food producers moved to transfats (which was catastrophic for public health). Keto advocates ignore any suggestion that meat may increase risk of cancer; that saturated fats might not be the thing you get most of your energy from; that controlling salt intake is sensible for some people. Science has moved on all of those things, but keto tends to see that movement, and then reject whatever the new stance is because broscience.
      - 11y ago

geoka9 11y ago

Forget keto (or any other diet for that matter). Just maintain a calorie deficit if you want to lose weight. The easiest way to do that is to lower carbs and compensate with higher protein/fat intake. Treat carbs as fuel - if you exercise a lot and/or have a lot of stress on a particular day, then you want them. If you are a couch potato on that day, you want to limit them. If you start craving comfort food, drink some water/have a scoop of peanut butter. Then wait half an hour - most probably the cravings will be gone. Eat lots of salad/celery/veggies just because they are good for you. If you start having stool problems, add a couple of table spoons of wheat bran to your daily food intake. Make sure to take it with lots of water - e.g. soak the bran in hot water before eating it. For further weight loss, consider intermittent fasting. I like this protocol: http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html But that should come later, once you are more or less lean. Good luck! Weight loss is really easier than it seems to be. All you need is to get into the routine and from there on it's just a question of time before you become lean.

nvader 11y ago

An article I recently read helped me make sense of the low carb/low fat dichotomy we see in the literature, both peer reviewed and popular, with plenty of anecdotal evidence on both sides. The flowchart at http://rockstarresearch.com/these-5-genes-predict-what-kind-of-diet-and-exercise-is-best-for-your-body-2/ http://rockstarresearch.com/these-5-genes-predict-what-kind-... helps you determine the better dieting approach of the two from your 23andMe results. It appears your genotype determines which you best respond to. According to the flowchart, I should best respond to a low fat diet: and I have seen great results from sticking to that. On the other hand, I saw no results from almost a year of keto (with strong social support: must of my co-workers were on the same diet, which made sticking to it easy), which is in line with the predictions of that chart.