11 ms·

One-off private schools are never going to move the needle. Even Alt School only caters to folks who don't really need it. Is it really not possible for private

by pbreit 11y ago

One-off private schools are never going to move the needle. Even Alt School only caters to folks who don't really need it. Is it really not possible for private industry to address public education? Perhaps "for profit" is just never going to work in education? Kipp?

ageek123 11y ago
> Perhaps "for profit" is just never going to work in education? Well, government-run certainly isn't working, at least in the US. Charter schools (like Kipp) seem to be doing a lot better.
- zo1 11y ago
  Unfortunately, when it comes to "state-run" institutions and policies, you're arguing against an ideal, rather than an implementation. I.e. You could argue it is some form of the no true Scotsman fallacy. Additionally, there is a very prevalent and saturated belief in the current society that views anything with 'for profit' motives as somehow bad/greedy. Consequently, everything that is "non-profit" (including the state) regularly gets undeserved moral brownie points.
- pbreit 11y ago
  Public universities, public schools in "better" neighborhoods and public schools in other countries operate well. I think the commonality likely has to do with how devoted the constituents are.
cookiecaper 11y ago
Modern education in the West is mostly pomp and circumstance. Facts are extremely non-discriminatory; people can't help but learn things and absorb the information that's around them. A key to successful education is putting people in environments and circumstances where the information is so well-integrated that it's difficult NOT to absorb it. That basically means giving people something interesting and valuable to do, telling them to do it, and being there to show them how. The magic really kicks in once they begin to show each other. We're focusing on the wrong things. You don't need a $50 million facility and $5 million of payroll per school to teach people stuff, and you don't have to pay everyone's medical bills. You need to have the learners do something of actual utility and value to both themselves and their immediate community so that they are properly engaged, and then you have to be there to communicate the information they need to fill the gap from "no idea" to "some idea", and the rest happens automatically. Virtually anyone who has written a program has followed this process. It's best if the teacher is directly invested in the learners, like a parent or other close family member. They'll care much more about the individual child's success. I plan to home school my kids once they hit 3rd grade or so (I think those first few years of school are important for developing the social baseline). If we actually care about educational quality, we need to get down to basics. As long as the dialogue on education is dominated by pension funds and zoning, it's a losing proposition.
- kuschku 11y ago
  One interesting concept used in some schools is that they will focus on only one topic for 2 or 3 weeks – and then another topic for the next weeks, and so on. When you just focus on one topic for a few weeks you can go far more in depth, engage the students easier, do more complex group work instead of teachers telling them. Even in normal school schedules it’s important than never (or close to never) the teacher actually teaches – the teacher can guide, but the students should work out how and why something works in groups. From math to history, from english to sports, this works far better, if students are able to discover and investigate on their own.
tajen 11y ago
In France public schools are 100% free, and private catholic schools have teachers paid by the state + a per-student benefit, so that the remainder paid by families is 200-2000€/year. I find it nice since it promotes alternatives, in case there's a problem with the local school. Contents and efficiency are checked by the ministry, so they don't diverge very much. In Bretagne it's 50% private schools and in the south of France about 15%.

by pbreit 11y ago

ageek123 11y ago

> Perhaps "for profit" is just never going to work in education? Well, government-run certainly isn't working, at least in the US. Charter schools (like Kipp) seem to be doing a lot better.

zo1 11y ago
Unfortunately, when it comes to "state-run" institutions and policies, you're arguing against an ideal, rather than an implementation. I.e. You could argue it is some form of the no true Scotsman fallacy. Additionally, there is a very prevalent and saturated belief in the current society that views anything with 'for profit' motives as somehow bad/greedy. Consequently, everything that is "non-profit" (including the state) regularly gets undeserved moral brownie points.
pbreit 11y ago
Public universities, public schools in "better" neighborhoods and public schools in other countries operate well. I think the commonality likely has to do with how devoted the constituents are.

cookiecaper 11y ago

Modern education in the West is mostly pomp and circumstance. Facts are extremely non-discriminatory; people can't help but learn things and absorb the information that's around them. A key to successful education is putting people in environments and circumstances where the information is so well-integrated that it's difficult NOT to absorb it. That basically means giving people something interesting and valuable to do, telling them to do it, and being there to show them how. The magic really kicks in once they begin to show each other. We're focusing on the wrong things. You don't need a $50 million facility and $5 million of payroll per school to teach people stuff, and you don't have to pay everyone's medical bills. You need to have the learners do something of actual utility and value to both themselves and their immediate community so that they are properly engaged, and then you have to be there to communicate the information they need to fill the gap from "no idea" to "some idea", and the rest happens automatically. Virtually anyone who has written a program has followed this process. It's best if the teacher is directly invested in the learners, like a parent or other close family member. They'll care much more about the individual child's success. I plan to home school my kids once they hit 3rd grade or so (I think those first few years of school are important for developing the social baseline). If we actually care about educational quality, we need to get down to basics. As long as the dialogue on education is dominated by pension funds and zoning, it's a losing proposition.

kuschku 11y ago
One interesting concept used in some schools is that they will focus on only one topic for 2 or 3 weeks – and then another topic for the next weeks, and so on. When you just focus on one topic for a few weeks you can go far more in depth, engage the students easier, do more complex group work instead of teachers telling them. Even in normal school schedules it’s important than never (or close to never) the teacher actually teaches – the teacher can guide, but the students should work out how and why something works in groups. From math to history, from english to sports, this works far better, if students are able to discover and investigate on their own.

tajen 11y ago

In France public schools are 100% free, and private catholic schools have teachers paid by the state + a per-student benefit, so that the remainder paid by families is 200-2000€/year. I find it nice since it promotes alternatives, in case there's a problem with the local school. Contents and efficiency are checked by the ministry, so they don't diverge very much. In Bretagne it's 50% private schools and in the south of France about 15%.