4 ms·

I don't think a list of practical tips for dealing with the reality is condoning anything, anymore than telling people to wear a bulletproof vest is condoning g

I don't think a list of practical tips for dealing with the reality is condoning anything, anymore than telling people to wear a bulletproof vest is condoning getting shot. I've posted stories about ageism previously. I don't think you'll find me 'condoning' it anytime soon. Example: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/27/your-money/unemployed-and-older-and-facing-a-jobless-future.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/27/your-money/unemployed-and-... I am realistic about it, though. I think it's something that we're going to have a very, very hard time dealing with. More obvious ones - like the ones you've listed - have been hard enough so far, and the struggles around them continue daily. Age? Yeah, that's going to be seriously challenging to combat. I'm all for trying to fight it, I just don't see the likelihood of good results anytime soon.

notacoward 11y ago
When you propose drastic measures like surgery, I think it crosses that line. If you don't believe me, why don't you either answer my question or explain why the analogy to sex/race/gender discrimination doesn't apply? Why would you not propose cosmetic surgery to cope with the "manifest reality" of being black or female? (Besides fear of the repercussions if you did, that is.) Why is one "realistic" when the other is clearly out of bounds? Any complete list of suggestions would include at least a few items aimed at challenging the bias. It doesn't have to be "systemic change"; it could just be calling out the behavior in a specific environment or context. Maybe that would work and maybe it wouldn't, but the same could be said of your "just fit in" suggestions. When the list is so one-sided, it implies that acceptance is the only logical course. That's wrong. It's not enough to admit that ageism exists (and then only when challenged). If you don't acknowledge the need for change then you're part of the problem. P.S. Since you keep re-editing what I'm responding to instead of adding new responses, putting it off isn't so great either. Yeah, sure, we'll start thinking about justice some day. We have more important things to worry about this week, right?
- Futurebot 11y ago
  Unlike those other areas, which I think can be combatted through cultural change and pressure, ageism is one that I think will remain a great deal more stubborn and resistant to change, and I don't feel that I have anything really useful to suggest other than "be aware of it and try not to be ageist." I could certainly be wrong, and I hope am. I just don't feel particularly hopeful about it. There's a comparable bias I don't think societies will have much luck with, either: "ugliness bias": http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970203687504576655331418204842 http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014240529702036875045766553... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/8765360/Does-being-ugly-make-you-poor.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/8765360/Does-be... I just don't see good ways of fixing that. (There's also "height bias", but I actually think that one might be fixable culturally.) Edit: I know it seems defeatist, and maybe it is, but it's an area I just don't feel hopeful about.

notacoward 11y ago

When you propose drastic measures like surgery, I think it crosses that line. If you don't believe me, why don't you either answer my question or explain why the analogy to sex/race/gender discrimination doesn't apply? Why would you not propose cosmetic surgery to cope with the "manifest reality" of being black or female? (Besides fear of the repercussions if you did, that is.) Why is one "realistic" when the other is clearly out of bounds? Any complete list of suggestions would include at least a few items aimed at challenging the bias. It doesn't have to be "systemic change"; it could just be calling out the behavior in a specific environment or context. Maybe that would work and maybe it wouldn't, but the same could be said of your "just fit in" suggestions. When the list is so one-sided, it implies that acceptance is the only logical course. That's wrong. It's not enough to admit that ageism exists (and then only when challenged). If you don't acknowledge the need for change then you're part of the problem. P.S. Since you keep re-editing what I'm responding to instead of adding new responses, putting it off isn't so great either. Yeah, sure, we'll start thinking about justice some day. We have more important things to worry about this week, right?

Futurebot 11y ago
Unlike those other areas, which I think can be combatted through cultural change and pressure, ageism is one that I think will remain a great deal more stubborn and resistant to change, and I don't feel that I have anything really useful to suggest other than "be aware of it and try not to be ageist." I could certainly be wrong, and I hope am. I just don't feel particularly hopeful about it. There's a comparable bias I don't think societies will have much luck with, either: "ugliness bias": http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970203687504576655331418204842 http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014240529702036875045766553... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/8765360/Does-being-ugly-make-you-poor.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/8765360/Does-be... I just don't see good ways of fixing that. (There's also "height bias", but I actually think that one might be fixable culturally.) Edit: I know it seems defeatist, and maybe it is, but it's an area I just don't feel hopeful about.