4 ms·

Yes, it was totally the city's fault that the Chicago Tunnel Company built and abandoned a collection of illegally dug tunnels under the city. It is also total

by mschy 17y ago

Yes, it was totally the city's fault that the Chicago Tunnel Company built and abandoned a collection of illegally dug tunnels under the city. It is also totally the city's fault that the previous participants in the Chicago Tunnel Company's experiment didn't protect themselves against a flood in that infrastructure. It is totally the city's fault that despite the tunnels not being a public responsibility, they had started a bidding process to get the leak fixed, though it wasn't completed before the flood. Yeah... totally the city's fault. Reader's note: There are elements of sarcasm in my post.

jordanb 17y ago
City Hall was one of the flooded buildings. They had an "unprotected" connection to the "illegal" tunnels.
- mschy 17y ago
  Okay, so City Hall was responsible for the damage to City Hall. But blaming the city for everything still strikes me as absurd. It was a private enterprise that dug tunnels without getting permits from the city, and it created a problem. Saying it's totally the city government's fault strikes me as nonsense given that reality. I'll grant them some responsibility, because government does tend to clean up when private industry leaves a mess, but it seems far from total to me.
noonespecial 17y ago
It is the government's responsibility to protect the common good, even from threats not of their making or even illegal in origin. Government is one of the few places where "could have and didn't" becomes the same as "did". The Katrina debacle is the largest example of this.
jodrellblank 17y ago
"built and abandoned" - you're missing the bit where they spent three or four decades operating a company between those two events. How illegal were they anyway?
anthonyb 17y ago
It was totally the city's fault because the city owned the tunnels. See the FAQ: http://users.ameritech.net/pokeefe571/ctcfaq.htm http://users.ameritech.net/pokeefe571/ctcfaq.htm Q: Why were the tunnels under State Street and Dearborn Street demolished to make room for the rapid transit subways? Didn't the Tunnel Company have any say so in the matter? A: The Chicago Tunnel Company owned only the locomotives, rolling stock, track, and overhead wire. The City of Chicago owned the tunnels. Because of this, the Tunnel Company didn't have much choice but to give up their most profitable trackage when subway construction was started by the city. You can't fight City Hall!
- mschy 17y ago
  Well that weakens my point substantially, but I still think that 'totally' is too much blame. If you leave your building hooked up to an open tunnel line, something could come in through it. And that something could be water (or gas, or rodents...). Claiming that's "totally" the city's fault strikes me as a dangerous abdication of personal responsibility.

by mschy 17y ago

jordanb 17y ago

City Hall was one of the flooded buildings. They had an "unprotected" connection to the "illegal" tunnels.

mschy 17y ago
Okay, so City Hall was responsible for the damage to City Hall. But blaming the city for everything still strikes me as absurd. It was a private enterprise that dug tunnels without getting permits from the city, and it created a problem. Saying it's totally the city government's fault strikes me as nonsense given that reality. I'll grant them some responsibility, because government does tend to clean up when private industry leaves a mess, but it seems far from total to me.

noonespecial 17y ago

It is the government's responsibility to protect the common good, even from threats not of their making or even illegal in origin. Government is one of the few places where "could have and didn't" becomes the same as "did". The Katrina debacle is the largest example of this.

jodrellblank 17y ago

"built and abandoned" - you're missing the bit where they spent three or four decades operating a company between those two events. How illegal were they anyway?

anthonyb 17y ago

It was totally the city's fault because the city owned the tunnels. See the FAQ: http://users.ameritech.net/pokeefe571/ctcfaq.htm http://users.ameritech.net/pokeefe571/ctcfaq.htm Q: Why were the tunnels under State Street and Dearborn Street demolished to make room for the rapid transit subways? Didn't the Tunnel Company have any say so in the matter? A: The Chicago Tunnel Company owned only the locomotives, rolling stock, track, and overhead wire. The City of Chicago owned the tunnels. Because of this, the Tunnel Company didn't have much choice but to give up their most profitable trackage when subway construction was started by the city. You can't fight City Hall!

mschy 17y ago
Well that weakens my point substantially, but I still think that 'totally' is too much blame. If you leave your building hooked up to an open tunnel line, something could come in through it. And that something could be water (or gas, or rodents...). Claiming that's "totally" the city's fault strikes me as a dangerous abdication of personal responsibility.