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I'm not saying you do, but I have found the general public vastly underestimates the intelligence of many auto mechanics--especially today's mechanics. I guess

I'm not saying you do, but I have found the general public vastly underestimates the intelligence of many auto mechanics--especially today's mechanics. I guess they have always been an easy target in movies, etc.? I have a feeling your dad could learn anything if given the right structure. Mechanics are underpaid, expected to continually learn on their time, provide $20,000-30,000 grand worth of tools; and the owner is the only one making a real living.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
iagooar 11y ago
That's interesting. From what I experienced, in some of the European countries mechanics earn pretty darn good money, have pretty acceptable working conditions and are respected in general.
- marincounty 11y ago
  My perspective is from the U.S. I would like to see them unionize. I sometimes think they could pull it off in the Bay Area, especially San Francisco.
  - kenbellows 11y ago
    Unionizing doesn't seem like it would work very well in an industry of which a significant portion is entrepreneurs with small 3-man shops and the like. Or were you thinking of just the big chain shops or those attached to large dealerships? In that case I think it might have a detrimental effect on the many small business shops.
  - kenbellows 11y ago
    Unionizing doesn't seem like it would work very well in an industry of which a significant portion is entrepreneurs with small 3-man shops and the like. Or were you thinking of just the big chain shops or those attached to large dealerships? In that case I think it might have a detrimental effect on the many small business shops.
mbritton72 11y ago
The auto mechanics I've encountered are brilliant people. The next Nietzsche or Michelangelo will be an auto mechanic.
- JoeAltmaier 11y ago
  And Einstein worked in a patent office.
  - mbritton72 11y ago
    Kafka was an insurance something-or-other...
    - auxym 11y ago
      Boris Vian was an engineer working for the AFNOR (french normalization body), which he found boring out of his mind. The first draft of L'Écume des Jours was written of AFNOR engineering graph paper.
    - 336f5 11y ago
      Looks like one'd describe him as an insurance adjuster: > Kafka was rapidly promoted and his duties included processing and investigating compensation claims, writing reports, and handling appeals from businessmen who thought their firms had been placed in too high a risk category, which cost them more in insurance premiums.[41] He would compile and compose the annual report on the insurance institute for the several years he worked there. And of course, Wallace Stevens was an insurance lawyer.
- mgkimsal 11y ago
  It strikes me that most professions have extremes. There are developers, then there are developers. There are mechanics, then there are mechanics. etc. There some mechanics I know who are absolutely top-notch - they know their stuff, and have had a passion for it for years. Others I run in to at repair shops are really just... they have a job. That's it. They may stay, or move on to something else later, but they're just average. And I see that in a lot of developers (probably moreso, as I have a more critical eye for that). But I think it's probably that way in almost every profession - some are truly passionate, brilliant, dedicated, etc. And some folks just treat it as a job.
jghn 11y ago
This will be unpopular here but the flipside of that is I think folks overestimate how mentally taxing "learn to code" really is. The large majority of programming tasks are pretty rote at this point, it's just all hidden behind a veneer of arcane wizardry.
- tracker1 11y ago
  Learning to code really comes down to understanding algorithms (logic flows, and decision trees), a little bit of math, and the syntax in question. That's all you need to get something done for the most part. Getting good/great at programming means understanding more and abstract concepts in addition to features of the environment you are working in. Most programming tasks, once an initial project is started/templated out, can be done by someone that is effective, while not being a "great" programmer. It's a trade off.
mikestew 11y ago
Once-upon-a-time-time auto mechanic, long time software dev here. It's not just the owner making a living, when I was active it was a decent middle-class living (25 years ago, could be different now). I'm talking professional, can diagnose your problem without throwing parts at it, owns a torque wrench and knows how to use it, not the vocational school students you find at Jiffy Lube. No one I knew was making BMW payments on their salary, but plenty had a nice house in a nice suburb, and a boat or other toy for the weekend. I would have been content to keep at it, but I like making software, too. It was fun, too; much like debugging code with your hands. Okay, what evidence do I have to work with? Of these several hypothesises, which are the most likely? And, just like code, sometimes you spend the afternoon going down what you thought was the right path only to find out you're wrong. As with software, there are hot shots that just seem wired for the task, and there are those that can merely competently do the job without screwing it up (and, like software, there are those few you don't want anywhere near your stuff). Just like software, I was one of those that fell in the middle. :-) Tell ya what though, unlike software, I had very few bad days as an auto mechanic. Decent money, I enjoyed the work, and when the weather was nice we open the bay doors and you're practically working outside. Rarely did anyone second-guess my decisions (and when they did, it was to make my job easier so I don't do it the hard way), and I rarely had to convince anyone of my estimates as we had a big book that already estimated how long a competent mechanic should take to do the job. One big difference is that incompetence is harder to hide as an auto mechanic. You're not going to be doing any copy-pasta from StackOverflow when you're an auto mechanic. Smart? Eh, like anything, it's hit or miss. Since the repair bays are right next to each other, and you don't have to expend a lot of cycles thinking through hash table algorithms, there's plenty of talking. Mechanics are a reflection of the general population, some guys (and they were all guys back then; girls worked up front behind the desk) I knew could probably write philosophy books, others probably won't be moving to Microsoft to write kernel code any time soon. In summary, the public underestimates the intelligence of just about everyone but themselves, so mechanics don't get a pass. Nor do the mechanics care about what you think, at least this one didn't. I was happy where I was at at the time, I didn't need anyone's approval. And the money was good.
- ochoseis 11y ago
  > It was fun, too; much like debugging code with your hands. Okay, what evidence do I have to work with? Of these several hypothesises, which are the most likely? And, just like code, sometimes you spend the afternoon going down what you thought was the right path only to find out you're wrong. Reminds me of reading "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

iagooar 11y ago

That's interesting. From what I experienced, in some of the European countries mechanics earn pretty darn good money, have pretty acceptable working conditions and are respected in general.

marincounty 11y ago
My perspective is from the U.S. I would like to see them unionize. I sometimes think they could pull it off in the Bay Area, especially San Francisco.
- kenbellows 11y ago
  Unionizing doesn't seem like it would work very well in an industry of which a significant portion is entrepreneurs with small 3-man shops and the like. Or were you thinking of just the big chain shops or those attached to large dealerships? In that case I think it might have a detrimental effect on the many small business shops.
- kenbellows 11y ago
  Unionizing doesn't seem like it would work very well in an industry of which a significant portion is entrepreneurs with small 3-man shops and the like. Or were you thinking of just the big chain shops or those attached to large dealerships? In that case I think it might have a detrimental effect on the many small business shops.

mbritton72 11y ago

The auto mechanics I've encountered are brilliant people. The next Nietzsche or Michelangelo will be an auto mechanic.

JoeAltmaier 11y ago
And Einstein worked in a patent office.
- mbritton72 11y ago
  Kafka was an insurance something-or-other...
  - auxym 11y ago
    Boris Vian was an engineer working for the AFNOR (french normalization body), which he found boring out of his mind. The first draft of L'Écume des Jours was written of AFNOR engineering graph paper.
  - 336f5 11y ago
    Looks like one'd describe him as an insurance adjuster: > Kafka was rapidly promoted and his duties included processing and investigating compensation claims, writing reports, and handling appeals from businessmen who thought their firms had been placed in too high a risk category, which cost them more in insurance premiums.[41] He would compile and compose the annual report on the insurance institute for the several years he worked there. And of course, Wallace Stevens was an insurance lawyer.
mgkimsal 11y ago
It strikes me that most professions have extremes. There are developers, then there are developers. There are mechanics, then there are mechanics. etc. There some mechanics I know who are absolutely top-notch - they know their stuff, and have had a passion for it for years. Others I run in to at repair shops are really just... they have a job. That's it. They may stay, or move on to something else later, but they're just average. And I see that in a lot of developers (probably moreso, as I have a more critical eye for that). But I think it's probably that way in almost every profession - some are truly passionate, brilliant, dedicated, etc. And some folks just treat it as a job.

jghn 11y ago

This will be unpopular here but the flipside of that is I think folks overestimate how mentally taxing "learn to code" really is. The large majority of programming tasks are pretty rote at this point, it's just all hidden behind a veneer of arcane wizardry.

tracker1 11y ago
Learning to code really comes down to understanding algorithms (logic flows, and decision trees), a little bit of math, and the syntax in question. That's all you need to get something done for the most part. Getting good/great at programming means understanding more and abstract concepts in addition to features of the environment you are working in. Most programming tasks, once an initial project is started/templated out, can be done by someone that is effective, while not being a "great" programmer. It's a trade off.

mikestew 11y ago

Once-upon-a-time-time auto mechanic, long time software dev here. It's not just the owner making a living, when I was active it was a decent middle-class living (25 years ago, could be different now). I'm talking professional, can diagnose your problem without throwing parts at it, owns a torque wrench and knows how to use it, not the vocational school students you find at Jiffy Lube. No one I knew was making BMW payments on their salary, but plenty had a nice house in a nice suburb, and a boat or other toy for the weekend. I would have been content to keep at it, but I like making software, too. It was fun, too; much like debugging code with your hands. Okay, what evidence do I have to work with? Of these several hypothesises, which are the most likely? And, just like code, sometimes you spend the afternoon going down what you thought was the right path only to find out you're wrong. As with software, there are hot shots that just seem wired for the task, and there are those that can merely competently do the job without screwing it up (and, like software, there are those few you don't want anywhere near your stuff). Just like software, I was one of those that fell in the middle. :-) Tell ya what though, unlike software, I had very few bad days as an auto mechanic. Decent money, I enjoyed the work, and when the weather was nice we open the bay doors and you're practically working outside. Rarely did anyone second-guess my decisions (and when they did, it was to make my job easier so I don't do it the hard way), and I rarely had to convince anyone of my estimates as we had a big book that already estimated how long a competent mechanic should take to do the job. One big difference is that incompetence is harder to hide as an auto mechanic. You're not going to be doing any copy-pasta from StackOverflow when you're an auto mechanic. Smart? Eh, like anything, it's hit or miss. Since the repair bays are right next to each other, and you don't have to expend a lot of cycles thinking through hash table algorithms, there's plenty of talking. Mechanics are a reflection of the general population, some guys (and they were all guys back then; girls worked up front behind the desk) I knew could probably write philosophy books, others probably won't be moving to Microsoft to write kernel code any time soon. In summary, the public underestimates the intelligence of just about everyone but themselves, so mechanics don't get a pass. Nor do the mechanics care about what you think, at least this one didn't. I was happy where I was at at the time, I didn't need anyone's approval. And the money was good.

ochoseis 11y ago
> It was fun, too; much like debugging code with your hands. Okay, what evidence do I have to work with? Of these several hypothesises, which are the most likely? And, just like code, sometimes you spend the afternoon going down what you thought was the right path only to find out you're wrong. Reminds me of reading "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"