3 ms·

The way I see it is that, as often when it comes to differences due to sex, you have two wide Gaussian distributions that overlap a lot. Sure, there are behavio

The way I see it is that, as often when it comes to differences due to sex, you have two wide Gaussian distributions that overlap a lot. Sure, there are behavioral differences (due to testosterone or other reasons), but the variation in behavior within one sex is probably larger than the distance between the means. The problem is, that in casual speech, we can only easily express black-and-white: either men and women are different due to testosterone, or they are not. Neither statement is really correct.

chroma 11y ago
With mental rotation, there is practically no overlap. See the graph from the original study.[1] It's a similar story for physical strength. Nobody denies that men tend to be stronger than women, but most people vastly underestimate the disparity. In a study that measured grip strength in 2,000 people[2], the weakest 5% of men were comparable to the top decile of women. Even elite female athletes were only as strong as the median untrained male. There are more examples (propensity for violence is another big one), but it takes time to find citations. Suffice it to say that most people think the sexes are more similar than they actually are. 1. https://brothersdiamond.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/menwoman.png https://brothersdiamond.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/menwoman... (For more on mental rotation and testosterone's effects, see my comment downthread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10443021 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10443021) 2. http://egitim.judo.gov.tr/Dosyalar/makaleler/-ENG-Hand-grip-strength-in-judo.pdf http://egitim.judo.gov.tr/Dosyalar/makaleler/-ENG-Hand-grip-...
- esailija 11y ago
  There's plenty of studies that debunk the mental rotation myth: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/09/100915080431.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/09/100915080431.ht... http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Angelica_Moe/publication/222271082_Are_males_always_better_than_females_in_mental_rotation_Exploring_a_gender_belief_explanation/links/0046351deecf8c760e000000.pdf http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Angelica_Moe/publication... There's also a study showing the field of neuroscience having a tendency to make unsupported and untested claims to confirm stereotypes http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs12152-012-9169-1 http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs12152-012-9169-1
  - no1ne 11y ago
    http://www.northwestern.edu/newscenter/stories/2015/08/scientists-uncover-a-difference-between-the-sexes.html http://www.northwestern.edu/newscenter/stories/2015/08/scien... Is this also stereotypical? Read what the researcher(a woman by the way)had to say. For 20 years, she actively avoided studying sex differences in the brain until her own data showed her that differences between females and males were real. Let science be about cold-hard facts and let it not be muddied by "feelings".
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
  - oldmanjay 11y ago
    there's a pretty big difference between "debunk[ing] the ... myth" and showing the effect is real and can be reduced via training. in particular, your second link says the differences are probably real in its conclusion!
    - esailija 11y ago
      The myth is that the differences (in mental rotation ability) are innate or "biological", not that there is differences (in mental rotation ability) in the first place.
      - no1ne 11y ago
        >> myth is that the differences are innate or "biological" erm...please read 1. Genomic differences between developing male and female brains in the womb-- http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/02/150203190223.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/02/150203190223.ht... and if you still feel that somehow humans try to gender stereotype whilst the fetus are still in the wombs, then read this also- 2.Sex differences in rhesus monkey toy preferences parallel those of children-- http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2583786/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2583786/

chroma 11y ago

With mental rotation, there is practically no overlap. See the graph from the original study.[1] It's a similar story for physical strength. Nobody denies that men tend to be stronger than women, but most people vastly underestimate the disparity. In a study that measured grip strength in 2,000 people[2], the weakest 5% of men were comparable to the top decile of women. Even elite female athletes were only as strong as the median untrained male. There are more examples (propensity for violence is another big one), but it takes time to find citations. Suffice it to say that most people think the sexes are more similar than they actually are. 1. https://brothersdiamond.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/menwoman.png https://brothersdiamond.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/menwoman... (For more on mental rotation and testosterone's effects, see my comment downthread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10443021 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10443021) 2. http://egitim.judo.gov.tr/Dosyalar/makaleler/-ENG-Hand-grip-strength-in-judo.pdf http://egitim.judo.gov.tr/Dosyalar/makaleler/-ENG-Hand-grip-...

esailija 11y ago
There's plenty of studies that debunk the mental rotation myth: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/09/100915080431.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/09/100915080431.ht... http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Angelica_Moe/publication/222271082_Are_males_always_better_than_females_in_mental_rotation_Exploring_a_gender_belief_explanation/links/0046351deecf8c760e000000.pdf http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Angelica_Moe/publication... There's also a study showing the field of neuroscience having a tendency to make unsupported and untested claims to confirm stereotypes http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs12152-012-9169-1 http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs12152-012-9169-1
- no1ne 11y ago
  http://www.northwestern.edu/newscenter/stories/2015/08/scientists-uncover-a-difference-between-the-sexes.html http://www.northwestern.edu/newscenter/stories/2015/08/scien... Is this also stereotypical? Read what the researcher(a woman by the way)had to say. For 20 years, she actively avoided studying sex differences in the brain until her own data showed her that differences between females and males were real. Let science be about cold-hard facts and let it not be muddied by "feelings".
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- oldmanjay 11y ago
  there's a pretty big difference between "debunk[ing] the ... myth" and showing the effect is real and can be reduced via training. in particular, your second link says the differences are probably real in its conclusion!
  - esailija 11y ago
    The myth is that the differences (in mental rotation ability) are innate or "biological", not that there is differences (in mental rotation ability) in the first place.
    - no1ne 11y ago
      >> myth is that the differences are innate or "biological" erm...please read 1. Genomic differences between developing male and female brains in the womb-- http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/02/150203190223.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/02/150203190223.ht... and if you still feel that somehow humans try to gender stereotype whilst the fetus are still in the wombs, then read this also- 2.Sex differences in rhesus monkey toy preferences parallel those of children-- http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2583786/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2583786/