4 ms·

This should not be surprising to anyone. This is how these things work. It's the reason PayPal is so brutal. To avoid things like this.

jacquesm 11y ago
> This is how these things work. It isn't always. Segregated merchant accounts are the way to go if millions of dollars change hands at that level the overhead of setting up a merchant account are negligible, and if you can't get one then that's a pretty good sign you shouldn't be working with that kind of money. A couple of these instances and square will get shut down by VISA and that's the end of that. That's the references to iBill and DMR, that's exactly what happened to them and all their merchants were left without recourse.
- blackguardx 11y ago
  Visa doesn't care about this because Square has paid them their money. For the most part, fraud is just a line item expense for the card networks. They care about it as long as fraud mitigation doesn't slow down payment transaction volume.
- URSpider94 11y ago
  Dude, this is EXACTLY what PayPal, Stripe, Square, etc. etc. have been doing for YEARS. The card networks all know full well. It's driving volume for them, and the payment services eat the charge backs, so they just don't care.
- pbreit 11y ago
  How would segregated accounts help? Square's 0.1% loss rate would never be grounds for a shut down. Do you have any idea what you're talking about?
  - jacquesm 11y ago
    Yes, I have an idea what I'm talking about. I followed the shut-down of Dacotah Marketing and Research and iBill from 'row #1' (as a mid-sized merchant with an inside line into the company about what was going on) and the main problem was that amongst the 1000's of good merchants there were a few bad ones. VISA warned them once, fined them the second time and shut them down the third. In both cases I lost a ton of money and I am definitely not the only party that did so. Since then I have my own merchant account and never a problem since. What is the main difference between 2015 and 2004?
    - jasonlotito 11y ago
      > Yes, I have an idea what I'm talking about. > I followed the shut-down of Dacotah Marketing and Research and iBill from 'row #1' (as a mid-sized merchant with an inside line into the company about what was going on) To be fair, that's still as an outsider for one particular incident. Has someone who was basically on stage to your "row #1" for other companies, you are missing a few pieces. Maybe not in that case, but the idea that segregated accounts is some magical pill for someone in the IPSP space isn't entirely true. And if Visa was involved, it wouldn't do anything.
- jasonlotito 11y ago
  > Segregated merchant accounts are the way to go... Yes, I know all this, and it doesn't change what I say. Even with many merchant accounts, it's still going to happen. And again: It's the reason PayPal is so brutal. To avoid things like this. > A couple of these instances and square will get shut down by VISA and that's the end of that. Yeah, it's a bit more involved than that, and at the same time, segregated merchant accounts aren't going to completely solve the problem. It's also the reason I stopped dealing with banks after 10 years of doing this. The only "rule" is money talks.

jacquesm 11y ago

> This is how these things work. It isn't always. Segregated merchant accounts are the way to go if millions of dollars change hands at that level the overhead of setting up a merchant account are negligible, and if you can't get one then that's a pretty good sign you shouldn't be working with that kind of money. A couple of these instances and square will get shut down by VISA and that's the end of that. That's the references to iBill and DMR, that's exactly what happened to them and all their merchants were left without recourse.

blackguardx 11y ago
Visa doesn't care about this because Square has paid them their money. For the most part, fraud is just a line item expense for the card networks. They care about it as long as fraud mitigation doesn't slow down payment transaction volume.
URSpider94 11y ago
Dude, this is EXACTLY what PayPal, Stripe, Square, etc. etc. have been doing for YEARS. The card networks all know full well. It's driving volume for them, and the payment services eat the charge backs, so they just don't care.
pbreit 11y ago
How would segregated accounts help? Square's 0.1% loss rate would never be grounds for a shut down. Do you have any idea what you're talking about?
- jacquesm 11y ago
  Yes, I have an idea what I'm talking about. I followed the shut-down of Dacotah Marketing and Research and iBill from 'row #1' (as a mid-sized merchant with an inside line into the company about what was going on) and the main problem was that amongst the 1000's of good merchants there were a few bad ones. VISA warned them once, fined them the second time and shut them down the third. In both cases I lost a ton of money and I am definitely not the only party that did so. Since then I have my own merchant account and never a problem since. What is the main difference between 2015 and 2004?
  - jasonlotito 11y ago
    > Yes, I have an idea what I'm talking about. > I followed the shut-down of Dacotah Marketing and Research and iBill from 'row #1' (as a mid-sized merchant with an inside line into the company about what was going on) To be fair, that's still as an outsider for one particular incident. Has someone who was basically on stage to your "row #1" for other companies, you are missing a few pieces. Maybe not in that case, but the idea that segregated accounts is some magical pill for someone in the IPSP space isn't entirely true. And if Visa was involved, it wouldn't do anything.
jasonlotito 11y ago
> Segregated merchant accounts are the way to go... Yes, I know all this, and it doesn't change what I say. Even with many merchant accounts, it's still going to happen. And again: It's the reason PayPal is so brutal. To avoid things like this. > A couple of these instances and square will get shut down by VISA and that's the end of that. Yeah, it's a bit more involved than that, and at the same time, segregated merchant accounts aren't going to completely solve the problem. It's also the reason I stopped dealing with banks after 10 years of doing this. The only "rule" is money talks.