4 ms·

Well, this is the notorious ICD-10 "upgrade" from ICD-9. Which has some "wonderful" codes, e.g. try https://www.google.com/search?q=icd+10+codes+funny https://

by hga 11y ago

Well, this is the notorious ICD-10 "upgrade" from ICD-9. Which has some "wonderful" codes, e.g. try https://www.google.com/search?q=icd+10+codes+funny https://www.google.com/search?q=icd+10+codes+funny Everyone's unfair favorite is "V97.33XD: Sucked into jet engine, subsequent encounter." Unfair because that doesn't mean you were stupid enough to do that twice, but had to see a doctor after the first visit. "W55.41XA: Bitten by pig, initial encounter" is OK, it happens. But "W61.62XD: Struck by duck, subsequent encounter." WTF??? I'm from a hunting family, and I've never heard of smallish birds like ducks harming people in this way. Ditto "W61.12XA: Struck by macaw, initial encounter" and "W59.22XA: Struck By Turtle" (now, being bitten by a big snapping turtle is horrific, but being struck by any turtle???). But this remains the most bizarre of all I've heard: "V91.07XD: Burn due to water-skis on fire, subsequent encounter." OK, at least we can laugh about ICD-10. For now.

jhulla 11y ago
That is funny. The wide range of codes is a great setup for coding errors: errors of omission, imprecision, using multiple codes to describe an event when a more accurate single code exists, etc. In the best case scenario, every doctor/nurse/PA/etc would have a technician follow them around just to manage the coding on EMRs.
jhulla 11y ago
OK - I had to confirm the water-skis. You're not kidding: https://www.cms.gov/medicare-coverage-database/staticpages/icd-10-code-lookup.aspx?KeyWord=V91.07XD&bc=AAAAAAAAAAACAA%3d%3d& https://www.cms.gov/medicare-coverage-database/staticpages/i... Has Monty Python taken over the ICD?
- hga 11y ago
  I don't blame you, I should have tried that myself. I'm still trying to figure out how that could be a legit code. Jet skis, of course. But ... ah, while trying to see if anyone else had a brainstorm, I found a better one that eliminates a lot of possibilities: V90.27XA: Drowning and submersion due to falling or jumping from burning water-skis, initial encounter Got that from http://skepticalscalpel.blogspot.com/2011/09/icd-10-codes-drowning-and-submersion.html http://skepticalscalpel.blogspot.com/2011/09/icd-10-codes-dr..., which suggests: I have come up with an answer. Someone, possibly an actor from the Jackass series of movies, sets up his water skis on milk crates in the back yard. The skis are positioned over a kiddie pool. He mounts the water skis while an accomplice sprays them with gasoline. The skis are lit, and the man jumps or falls from the burning skis, submerging and drowning himself in the process. Luckily there is an ICD-10 code for that. Maybe we're being trolled? You know, there are trolling motors, but they're (all?) slow, battery powered ones to avoid disturbing fish, not at all suitable for water skiing.
  - Mz 11y ago
    When I paid accident claims, I paid a surprising number of claims for 2nd degree burn on lower leg from motorcycle exhaust pipe. You make me wonder if there is a code specifically for that. /weird but true
    - secabeen 11y ago
      Looks like it's just the burn code: http://www.icd10data.com/ICD10CM/Codes/S00-T88/T20-T25/T24/T24.2-/T24.232A http://www.icd10data.com/ICD10CM/Codes/S00-T88/T20-T25/T24/T...
      - techdragon 11y ago
        The funny thing is that we have ultra specific water ski codes, yet can't find a more specific one for "burn by motorcycle"
dragonwriter 11y ago
Pretty much every code added to a code set like the ICD is added because someone, somewhere needed it, and didn't have it in the previous version. And ICD-10 codes are used for a variety of purposes -- statistical, billing, etc. -- so if its important for one of those uses, its going to get added. Especially since, with the degree of automation preferred now, if it a distinction could reasonably affect any decision in any of the roles that the code set is used for, it needs to be represented in the code set.
- hga 11y ago
  And ICD-10 codes are used for a variety of purposes -- statistical And that's where it goes off the rails, this revision is trying to serve too many masters, in which actual health care is subservient to collection of data for the usual nosy suspects. Did anyone even contemplate the trade-offs? And even then, look at all those codes for bites of fingers. Are you really insisting they will provide anything other than fancy looking statistics for self-important bureaucrats?
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    > And even then, look at all those codes for bites of fingers. Are you really insisting they will provide anything other than fancy looking statistics for self-important bureaucrats? While I don't know the history of the particular codes, a lot of the hyperspecific codes are driven by needs of insurance payers (public and private) and their desire to incorporate elements that would otherwise be identified in (comparatively costly) non-automated review and provide the necessary resolution in coding that they can be identified and distinguished without that review and the associated cost. Driving down that area of administrative costs is a different thing than providing fancy looking statistics for self-important bureaucrats.
    - CountSessine 11y ago
      non-automated review and provide the necessary resolution in coding that they can be identified and distinguished without that review and the associated cost. What type of review - automated or manual - requires the categorical specificity of distinguishing between 359+ different types of marginally varying finger trauma from bites? This is just madness. That anyone would even suggest that that level of specificity was even useful, never mind required, is bureaucratic madness. Step back from the tree and you can see the forest burning.
ceejayoz 11y ago
> Everyone's unfair favorite is "V97.33XD: Sucked into jet engine, subsequent encounter." Not as unfair as it seems! Someone got sucked into an A-6 Intruder on a carrier with only minor injuries due to his helmet shredding the engine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jxcSY1AwrM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jxcSY1AwrM
vacri 11y ago
> Struck by duck Could mean lovestruck? :) > Struck By Turtle Eagles have been known to drop turtles from flight, in order to crack them open. The ancient Greek playwright Aeschylus is supposed to have been killed by a tortoise in this manner.
- hga 11y ago
  Damn, I forgot that. So it's not completely insane. Except in that, as I note elsewhere in this subthread, it has no more to do with providing better healthcare than the myriad insane variations of finger injuries that started this subthread.

by hga 11y ago

jhulla 11y ago

That is funny. The wide range of codes is a great setup for coding errors: errors of omission, imprecision, using multiple codes to describe an event when a more accurate single code exists, etc. In the best case scenario, every doctor/nurse/PA/etc would have a technician follow them around just to manage the coding on EMRs.

jhulla 11y ago

OK - I had to confirm the water-skis. You're not kidding: https://www.cms.gov/medicare-coverage-database/staticpages/icd-10-code-lookup.aspx?KeyWord=V91.07XD&bc=AAAAAAAAAAACAA%3d%3d& https://www.cms.gov/medicare-coverage-database/staticpages/i... Has Monty Python taken over the ICD?

hga 11y ago
I don't blame you, I should have tried that myself. I'm still trying to figure out how that could be a legit code. Jet skis, of course. But ... ah, while trying to see if anyone else had a brainstorm, I found a better one that eliminates a lot of possibilities: V90.27XA: Drowning and submersion due to falling or jumping from burning water-skis, initial encounter Got that from http://skepticalscalpel.blogspot.com/2011/09/icd-10-codes-drowning-and-submersion.html http://skepticalscalpel.blogspot.com/2011/09/icd-10-codes-dr..., which suggests: I have come up with an answer. Someone, possibly an actor from the Jackass series of movies, sets up his water skis on milk crates in the back yard. The skis are positioned over a kiddie pool. He mounts the water skis while an accomplice sprays them with gasoline. The skis are lit, and the man jumps or falls from the burning skis, submerging and drowning himself in the process. Luckily there is an ICD-10 code for that. Maybe we're being trolled? You know, there are trolling motors, but they're (all?) slow, battery powered ones to avoid disturbing fish, not at all suitable for water skiing.
- Mz 11y ago
  When I paid accident claims, I paid a surprising number of claims for 2nd degree burn on lower leg from motorcycle exhaust pipe. You make me wonder if there is a code specifically for that. /weird but true
  - secabeen 11y ago
    Looks like it's just the burn code: http://www.icd10data.com/ICD10CM/Codes/S00-T88/T20-T25/T24/T24.2-/T24.232A http://www.icd10data.com/ICD10CM/Codes/S00-T88/T20-T25/T24/T...
    - techdragon 11y ago
      The funny thing is that we have ultra specific water ski codes, yet can't find a more specific one for "burn by motorcycle"

dragonwriter 11y ago

Pretty much every code added to a code set like the ICD is added because someone, somewhere needed it, and didn't have it in the previous version. And ICD-10 codes are used for a variety of purposes -- statistical, billing, etc. -- so if its important for one of those uses, its going to get added. Especially since, with the degree of automation preferred now, if it a distinction could reasonably affect any decision in any of the roles that the code set is used for, it needs to be represented in the code set.

hga 11y ago
And ICD-10 codes are used for a variety of purposes -- statistical And that's where it goes off the rails, this revision is trying to serve too many masters, in which actual health care is subservient to collection of data for the usual nosy suspects. Did anyone even contemplate the trade-offs? And even then, look at all those codes for bites of fingers. Are you really insisting they will provide anything other than fancy looking statistics for self-important bureaucrats?
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > And even then, look at all those codes for bites of fingers. Are you really insisting they will provide anything other than fancy looking statistics for self-important bureaucrats? While I don't know the history of the particular codes, a lot of the hyperspecific codes are driven by needs of insurance payers (public and private) and their desire to incorporate elements that would otherwise be identified in (comparatively costly) non-automated review and provide the necessary resolution in coding that they can be identified and distinguished without that review and the associated cost. Driving down that area of administrative costs is a different thing than providing fancy looking statistics for self-important bureaucrats.
  - CountSessine 11y ago
    non-automated review and provide the necessary resolution in coding that they can be identified and distinguished without that review and the associated cost. What type of review - automated or manual - requires the categorical specificity of distinguishing between 359+ different types of marginally varying finger trauma from bites? This is just madness. That anyone would even suggest that that level of specificity was even useful, never mind required, is bureaucratic madness. Step back from the tree and you can see the forest burning.

ceejayoz 11y ago

> Everyone's unfair favorite is "V97.33XD: Sucked into jet engine, subsequent encounter." Not as unfair as it seems! Someone got sucked into an A-6 Intruder on a carrier with only minor injuries due to his helmet shredding the engine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jxcSY1AwrM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jxcSY1AwrM

vacri 11y ago

> Struck by duck Could mean lovestruck? :) > Struck By Turtle Eagles have been known to drop turtles from flight, in order to crack them open. The ancient Greek playwright Aeschylus is supposed to have been killed by a tortoise in this manner.

hga 11y ago
Damn, I forgot that. So it's not completely insane. Except in that, as I note elsewhere in this subthread, it has no more to do with providing better healthcare than the myriad insane variations of finger injuries that started this subthread.