4 ms·

Ravenna is where the Western Roman capital moved to (402-476) in an effort to be more easily defended; likewise the capital of Gondor was moved from Osgiliath t

Ravenna is where the Western Roman capital moved to (402-476) in an effort to be more easily defended; likewise the capital of Gondor was moved from Osgiliath to Minas Tirith to more easily defend it.

davidw 11y ago
Perhaps they would have lasted a bit longer if they'd gone to San Marino! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Marino https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Marino
- mmanfrin 11y ago
  Wouldn't have made much of a difference as Odoacer simply bypassed Ravenna (and would have bypassed San Marino) on his way to sacking Rome. Rome at that time had fallen far from grace, but the sacking was the nail on the coffin. The true strength of Rome had already left, gone east to Constantinople. 4th/5th century western Rome was just a slow and painful decay. The East survived until 1453. Fun little fact: the Roman Empire existed until 1453 and was finally destroyed by the Ottomans; the Ottomans existed until the end of WW1; the Cubbies last won the world series in 1908; which all means: the last time the Cubs won the world series, the empire that destroyed the Roman empire was still around.
  - baghira 11y ago
    I can't recall a sack of Rome by Odoacer, nor can I find after a quick search, but my memory may be lasping here. FWIW, Odoacer did escape to Ravenna to escape Theoderic and the siege lasted circa 3 years, so it did prove to be a reasonable location from that point of view.
  - azernik 11y ago
    Which was the point - Rome was too easy to attack, so the government moved to Ravenna so that when it happened, at least the emperor and bureaucracy wouldn't be at risk.
- baghira 11y ago
  Trouble is, there was no San Marino at the time. While I have no idea whether or not this was the inspiration for Tolkien, some element sort of match, from the capital being moved to the following reconquest of Ravenna under Byzantine rule, and also the presence of marshes to the north of the city (if Middle Earth map is oriented North-top South-bottom, which I'm not sure).
  - eru 11y ago
    > (if Middle Earth map is oriented North-top South-bottom, which I'm not sure). It is. They explicitly mention that the Dwarfish orientation is different (east up) in the Hobbit, I think.
- Steko 11y ago
  Nice try San Marino stealth marketing council.

davidw 11y ago

Perhaps they would have lasted a bit longer if they'd gone to San Marino! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Marino https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Marino

mmanfrin 11y ago
Wouldn't have made much of a difference as Odoacer simply bypassed Ravenna (and would have bypassed San Marino) on his way to sacking Rome. Rome at that time had fallen far from grace, but the sacking was the nail on the coffin. The true strength of Rome had already left, gone east to Constantinople. 4th/5th century western Rome was just a slow and painful decay. The East survived until 1453. Fun little fact: the Roman Empire existed until 1453 and was finally destroyed by the Ottomans; the Ottomans existed until the end of WW1; the Cubbies last won the world series in 1908; which all means: the last time the Cubs won the world series, the empire that destroyed the Roman empire was still around.
- baghira 11y ago
  I can't recall a sack of Rome by Odoacer, nor can I find after a quick search, but my memory may be lasping here. FWIW, Odoacer did escape to Ravenna to escape Theoderic and the siege lasted circa 3 years, so it did prove to be a reasonable location from that point of view.
- azernik 11y ago
  Which was the point - Rome was too easy to attack, so the government moved to Ravenna so that when it happened, at least the emperor and bureaucracy wouldn't be at risk.
baghira 11y ago
Trouble is, there was no San Marino at the time. While I have no idea whether or not this was the inspiration for Tolkien, some element sort of match, from the capital being moved to the following reconquest of Ravenna under Byzantine rule, and also the presence of marshes to the north of the city (if Middle Earth map is oriented North-top South-bottom, which I'm not sure).
- eru 11y ago
  > (if Middle Earth map is oriented North-top South-bottom, which I'm not sure). It is. They explicitly mention that the Dwarfish orientation is different (east up) in the Hobbit, I think.
Steko 11y ago
Nice try San Marino stealth marketing council.