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A small group of individual rioters two blocks from my home. You'll have to pardon me for not wanting to encourage a repeat of this by sending a message that ri
by Kalium 11y ago
A small group of individual rioters two blocks from my home. You'll have to pardon me for not wanting to encourage a repeat of this by sending a message that rioting near my home garners my political support.
- djcapelis 11y agoOh get over yourself! Something vaguely inconvenient happened to some folks a couple blocks away from you once and now you're not interested in a whole class of people's legitimate grievances against oppression? Also you think that the best way to stop riots from happening is to continue the same policies that lead to them in the first place? Are you really even against riots?
- Kalium 11y agoCan I ask for a little empathy, please? EDIT: What do you think rewarding rioters with political concessions will do the future rational cost-benefit evaluations of riots vs peaceful action?
- djcapelis 11y agoFor what, exactly? Someone else's windows being smashed? I've actually had my car window smashed. I assure you, it is a minor inconvenience compared to what black people often experience interacting with law enforcement. What exactly do you think you deserve empathy for? And how long have you lived in Oakland? Were you aware you moved to the city where the Black Panthers were founded or are you just thinking you have the right to complain just because you decided to move there?
- Kalium 11y agoI'm well aware of Oakland's history, thank you. I'm asking you to stop and feel empathy for someone whose personal well-being is at needless risk. Is that a thing you care about?
- djcapelis 11y agoYour personal well-being is not at needless risk by living in Oakland. And if you honestly feel that it is, you're the one who should move.
- Kalium 11y agoMy personal well-being is not at needless risk by living in Oakland. My personal well-being is at needless risk by riots occurring in close physical proximity to my location. My apologies for my lack of clarity.
- djcapelis 11y agoNo it is not. You continue to be more at risk of dying while crossing a street than you are by being near or even in a riot in Oaklamd. Your lack of clarity has nothing to do with quibbles over location and everything to do with assessment of risk. Also, if you dislike riots so much and dislike policies which you think might reward them, should San Francisco ban the Giants from competing in the World Series?
- Kalium 11y agoA matter on which we will simply have to disagree, it seems. And don't tempt me with the Giants.
- fnordfnordfnord 11y agoYou think that rioters are rational people who engage in cost-benefit evaluations before they riot?
- Kalium 11y agoI think people wouldn't make a habit of arguing that riots help solve injustice if it was very clear that riots solved nothing. I, personally, believe that people who think riots help solve social problems are more likely to riot than people who do not hold that belief.
- dang 11y ago> Oh get over yourself Please remain civil, even when someone needs to get over themself.
- mazelife 11y agoSince when does supporting the righting of an injustice require you to also support rioting? I'm sorry, that just doesn't logically follow. You're confusing the tactics of a tiny minority with the substance or a huge movement.
- Kalium 11y agoSince riot-supporters consistently use political successes to advocate for more riots. This is a thing that happens consistently, reliably, and regularly. You see it right here on HN, where people argue that riots raise awareness and are thus a positive.
- FireBeyond 11y agoDo, please, provide citations that support your assertions that here on HN, people are arguing that riots are a positive thing that raise awareness.
- Kalium 11y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10440455 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10440455 > Riots, on the other hand, seem to cause the media hordes to descend and at least draw attention to the cause. It's hard to argue the fact that they are at least useful for consciousness -raising.
- FireBeyond 11y agoPerhaps. Although 'effective', or in this case 'useful' definitely does not have to be a synonym for "a positive thing", as you state.
- Kalium 11y agoI am using "positive" in the sense of "gainful", contextually meaning "furthers the cause in question".
- dang 11y agoWe detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10440447 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10440447 and marked it off-topic.