5 ms·

I don't support the rioters. However they faced the exact same treatment from those who were supposed to protect them. They were fucked over and abused and had

by retbull 11y ago

I don't support the rioters. However they faced the exact same treatment from those who were supposed to protect them. They were fucked over and abused and had their lives smashed simply because they were poor or black or different. The message that they wanted expressed is being effectively expressed at the cost of innocents just like they were innocent and abused.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
Kalium 11y ago
Obviously, I don't support the rioters. And the riots have put me in an awkward position. I can say I don't support the rioters while still supporting and pushing for what the rioters want. However, if I do this, any successes can and will be treated as successes by the rioters. The predictable result will be more riots, because people will conclude that riots get them what they want. Alternately, I can refuse to advocate for policies called for by rioters, because under no circumstances do I want to encourage riots. That's the bind I'm in. I'm erring on the side of personal safety, because I'm not real interested in having my face smashed in with a crowbar for the cause of today's riot.
- retbull 11y ago
  People don't like rioting either it isn't going to happen forever. Also people aren't stupid though some of them might actually think that most won't and it will (hopefully) fall apart.
  - Kalium 11y ago
    It's a common article of faith in some of the politically leftist circles I move in that riots further the cause of justice (for the contexual value of justice).
    - tsotha 11y ago
      You move in a circle of fools. For every person cheering the rioters there are ten people turned off to anything with which the rioters are associated. If anything, the riots (along with the recent surge in violent crime) are going to end the nascent sentencing reform efforts that have been wending their way through Congress. We may have to wait another generation before we can try again.
      - Kalium 11y ago
        I tend to agree that there are a lot of fools there. I think most of them are just romantics who haven't learned that what feels right and what is right are not always the same.
      - guelo 11y ago
        Maybe some people think that trying to play to upper middle class sensibilities all the time has gotten us to a bad place and it's time to ignore them.
        tsotha 11y ago
        Great. See how far you get when you ignore the majority's sensibilities in a democracy.
- anigbrowl 11y ago
  I share your dislike of riots and the of the idea that they're an effective form of protest, but you might like to reflect on why our Oakland PD has been under federal supervision since 2003, although use of force has declined precipitously in the last couple of years (http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Sharp-downturn-in-use-of-force-at-Oakland-Police-6481637.php http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Sharp-downturn-in...). Because of the history of radical politics in Oakland, and because the OPD is basically on federal probation, whenever there's cause for a protest quite a lot of people from outside the area converge on Oakland because it's relatively easy to run wild here and not get caught. I live near the Children's hospital so when you saw that TV coverage of the police and would-be rioters trying to outflank each other to get access to Telegraph or the freeway ramp night after night, you also get a good look at my front yard. Be assured that I am as fully aware of the local impact as it is possible to be.

by retbull 11y ago

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

Kalium 11y ago

Obviously, I don't support the rioters. And the riots have put me in an awkward position. I can say I don't support the rioters while still supporting and pushing for what the rioters want. However, if I do this, any successes can and will be treated as successes by the rioters. The predictable result will be more riots, because people will conclude that riots get them what they want. Alternately, I can refuse to advocate for policies called for by rioters, because under no circumstances do I want to encourage riots. That's the bind I'm in. I'm erring on the side of personal safety, because I'm not real interested in having my face smashed in with a crowbar for the cause of today's riot.

retbull 11y ago
People don't like rioting either it isn't going to happen forever. Also people aren't stupid though some of them might actually think that most won't and it will (hopefully) fall apart.
- Kalium 11y ago
  It's a common article of faith in some of the politically leftist circles I move in that riots further the cause of justice (for the contexual value of justice).
  - tsotha 11y ago
    You move in a circle of fools. For every person cheering the rioters there are ten people turned off to anything with which the rioters are associated. If anything, the riots (along with the recent surge in violent crime) are going to end the nascent sentencing reform efforts that have been wending their way through Congress. We may have to wait another generation before we can try again.
    - Kalium 11y ago
      I tend to agree that there are a lot of fools there. I think most of them are just romantics who haven't learned that what feels right and what is right are not always the same.
    - guelo 11y ago
      Maybe some people think that trying to play to upper middle class sensibilities all the time has gotten us to a bad place and it's time to ignore them.
      - tsotha 11y ago
        Great. See how far you get when you ignore the majority's sensibilities in a democracy.
anigbrowl 11y ago
I share your dislike of riots and the of the idea that they're an effective form of protest, but you might like to reflect on why our Oakland PD has been under federal supervision since 2003, although use of force has declined precipitously in the last couple of years (http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Sharp-downturn-in-use-of-force-at-Oakland-Police-6481637.php http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Sharp-downturn-in...). Because of the history of radical politics in Oakland, and because the OPD is basically on federal probation, whenever there's cause for a protest quite a lot of people from outside the area converge on Oakland because it's relatively easy to run wild here and not get caught. I live near the Children's hospital so when you saw that TV coverage of the police and would-be rioters trying to outflank each other to get access to Telegraph or the freeway ramp night after night, you also get a good look at my front yard. Be assured that I am as fully aware of the local impact as it is possible to be.