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> the instructor told him frankly that the victim would die. He researched the subject thoroughly and found that there was absolutely no other solution to chok
by lazyant 11y ago
> the instructor told him frankly that the victim would die.
He researched the subject thoroughly and found that there was absolutely no other solution to choking besides the Heimlich maneuver
maybe I've seen too many movies, but what about the old knife and ball pen Tracheotomy?
- zyxley 11y agoDo you really trust any significant number of people to do that without killing the person?
- JshWright 11y agoI would assume a ship with a crew of any significant size would have someone on board who is capable of performing a cricothyrotomy.
- CaptSpify 11y agoOn top of that: If it's pretty much a guarantee I'll die anyway, I'd rather them take the chance. Heavily dependent on the situation though
- eridius 11y agoI've always been rather skeptical about how well that would actually work in practice. But even if it does, presumably the person still needs immediate medical care, as having a hole cut open in their throat is still a pretty serious condition. If you're 100 miles out at sea, you're probably not going to do so well trying to breath through a makeshift tube from a hole in your throat.
- darkmighty 11y agoI remember hearing a story of it being used a few times during flights. I guess it does work, and having a hole in your throat is not that bad, there are no arteries or much blood flow at all in there. Of course, I would still vastly prefer a dechoker! (assuming it works well)
- sp332 11y agoThere's no bloodflow if you do it exactly right - just a half-inch to either side is a different story!
- eridius 11y agoA flight is a much more controlled environment, and one that will have immediate access to medical personnel the moment they touch down. 100 miles out at sea is not exactly a controlled environment, and access to medical personnel is not a matter of a short wait.
- Johnny555 11y agoFather Mulcahay certainly had no trouble performing one with no medical training, just a doctor on a radio to walk him through it. Must be pretty easy.
- brianberns 11y agoThat was a great episode.
- chm 11y agoNot only do you have to know where to puncture, you also have to make sure you puncture below the obstruction.
- robbiep 11y agoThe problem with the surgical cric or any other method is that it needs to be lower than the object lodged, which shouldn't be too difficult most of the time but runs the risk of being a futile procedure. Personally as a doctor I'm surprised they are teaching the heimlich, it's an outdated procedure with limited success, in ANZ first aid you're meant to slap on the back a bunch of times before going for physical removal
- CamperBob2 11y agoThat's interesting -- my understanding is that Heimlich was explicitly intended to supersede the "slap on the back" technique.
- jameslk 11y agoYou can thank good marketing for that. According to Roger White MD of the Mayo Clinic and American Heart Association (AHA), "There was never any science here. Heimlich overpowered science all along the way with his slick tactics and intimidation, and everyone, including us at the AHA, caved in."[0] 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdominal_thrusts#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdominal_thrusts#History
- CamperBob2 11y agoFascinating! I had no idea this was the least bit controversial. Looks like Dr. Heimlich's own son threw him under the bus. It always seemed to me that pounding someone on the back was as likely to force the obstruction farther into the trachea as it was to cause it to be expelled. After all, the victim is presumably trying to breathe, so dislodging the object without a strong upward thrust seems like a bad idea. Guess that's not the case.
- thaumasiotes 11y agoWith something obstructing their airway, I would have assumed they were trying to cough. Inhaling a tiny drop of spit can be enough to give me serious breathing problems, not because the spit does anything but because I have to cough so much afterwards.