4 ms·

Well that doesn't make sense... calories in, calories out, thermodynamics, it's as simple as that, right?!? Edit: Seems I've inadvertently demonstrated Poe's L

by zzalpha 11y ago

Well that doesn't make sense... calories in, calories out, thermodynamics, it's as simple as that, right?!? Edit: Seems I've inadvertently demonstrated Poe's Law...

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
skxjf29582 11y ago
No one is overweight/obese because of gut bacteria. There may be marginal effects, but it's a bit like optimizing the tires on a soccer mom's mini-van.
- Lawtonfogle 11y ago
  Marginal effects can add up quite quickly over a lifetime. Take someone 100 pounds overweight. That is 350000 Kcal more consumption in their lifetime than they should've had. Let's spread that over 10 years, or 35000 Kcal a year. That works out to about a 100 Kcal difference per day. Over 20 years, it would be about 50 Kcal. Now, they could've made different choices, and there are some people who stay a healthy weight by making different choices. But I would not dismiss small changes as being irrelevant because given the time scale, those changes do add up.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - im3w1l 11y ago
    It doesn't work quite like that, because there is a negative feedback loop. When you increase in weight your metabolism goes up. If you are at a steady weight and increase your consumption by 50 kcal a day, you will reach a new steady weight where your metabolism is 50 kcal more. 50 kcal extra a day means steady state weight increases by about 3 pounds or 1.5 kg.
- lsniddy 11y ago
  Just because its more complicated than calories in calories out doesnt mean its not true. http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/woman-becomes-obese-after-fecal-transplant-overweight-donor http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/woman-becomes-...
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- heydenberk 11y ago
  I find your metaphor agreeable but not your argument: I'd wager that many minivans are running far below optimal gas efficiency because their tires are under-inflated.
- zzalpha 11y ago
  No one is overweight/obese because of gut bacteria. That is an excellent baseless assertion you have there! Care to back that up with facts? Or should we just take your word for it?
- wang_li 11y ago
  The issue is that humans are not deterministic machines. We are often presented with internal urges and cravings. We are faced with stresses that lower our ability to maintain discipline. We have different needs, so you can't just adopt a one size fits all plan. And we do have different microbiomes that will create all sorts of issues with respect to our ability to make decisions, exercise and recover. So while it is fundamentally true that a calorie deficit will lead to weight loss, it's not trivial to create a consistent deficit while maintaining good nutrition.
- AndrewDucker 11y ago
  http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2015/02/04/Woman-becomes-obese-after-fecal-transplant-from-overweight-donor/1581423067944/ http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2015/02/04/Woman-becomes-obes... 35 pounds gained from changing her stomach bacteria.
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deleted 11y ago
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deleted 11y ago
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soneca 11y ago
Measuring calories burnt and calories consumed is trickier than it looks reading nutriction facts and calories/hour tables. Also, your body is much smarter than you in adapting to changes to calories getting in and out. If you accept that human body do a lot more to influence your behavior than your consciousness realize, you have to admit that not all things depends solely on one's will. Calories consumption are one of those things. Also, you can study large groups of people for macro influences of a diet at humand body. But individually is known to provide a lot of diversity. Two people on the exactly same diet and exercise routine won't have the exactly same body effects. Much of that was put in the account of DNA. But maybe some of this is due to gut bacteria. That's a possibility worth researching.
- mattmanser 11y ago
  your body is much smarter than you in adapting to changes to calories getting in and out I'm not entirely sure if you're alluding to it but starvation mode is a myth. I would also suggest subscribing to /r/loseit or /r/progresspics for a while and seeing how many of the success stories involve anything more than "I stopped eating so much and now I'm thin!". Sometimes it's "I started keto/paleo, which meant I wasn't eating many calories and now I'm thin!".
  - rickdale 11y ago
    While you can apply calories to those situations, at best calories is an incomplete model. A can of tuna and a can of coke both have 120calories. Yet its obvious that those are going to effect the bodies systems in different ways. Also, weight is just one measurement. People that eat paleo and other diets often improve all their health numbers like blood pressure and other stuff. So there is a bigger picture to grasp.
    - mattmanser 11y ago
      Why is it obvious? These are the exact questions that nutritionists are trying to answer without the benefit of being able to force people to eat what they want to test because they're in a Nazi death camp. Do you know, for example, that poor Japanese in the navy used to just eat rice. Nothing else. Just plain rice: https://medium.com/war-is-boring/eating-too-much-rice-almost-sank-the-japanese-navy-f985772c81a6#.5u8adggna https://medium.com/war-is-boring/eating-too-much-rice-almost... Some had to be forced to eat protein by chopping it up into the rice. Or that someone did a twinkie diet and it worked: http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/ http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.profes...
mistermann 11y ago
Metabolism?
- cheepin 11y ago
  Doesn't matter that much for the majority of people: http://examine.com/faq/does-metabolism-vary-between-two-people/ http://examine.com/faq/does-metabolism-vary-between-two-peop...
colordrops 11y ago
I know you are being facetious, but the attitude you are making fun of is pervasive across the internet. In this specific case, people are not considering that lesser and greater amounts of ingested calories are excreted depending on how much was absorbed during the digestion process. More generally, people cargo cult some scientific sound bite and then stubbornly defend it without considering that they may be wrong since they are backed by "science".

by zzalpha 11y ago

Well that doesn't make sense... calories in, calories out, thermodynamics, it's as simple as that, right?!? Edit: Seems I've inadvertently demonstrated Poe's Law...

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

skxjf29582 11y ago

No one is overweight/obese because of gut bacteria. There may be marginal effects, but it's a bit like optimizing the tires on a soccer mom's mini-van.

Lawtonfogle 11y ago
Marginal effects can add up quite quickly over a lifetime. Take someone 100 pounds overweight. That is 350000 Kcal more consumption in their lifetime than they should've had. Let's spread that over 10 years, or 35000 Kcal a year. That works out to about a 100 Kcal difference per day. Over 20 years, it would be about 50 Kcal. Now, they could've made different choices, and there are some people who stay a healthy weight by making different choices. But I would not dismiss small changes as being irrelevant because given the time scale, those changes do add up.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- im3w1l 11y ago
  It doesn't work quite like that, because there is a negative feedback loop. When you increase in weight your metabolism goes up. If you are at a steady weight and increase your consumption by 50 kcal a day, you will reach a new steady weight where your metabolism is 50 kcal more. 50 kcal extra a day means steady state weight increases by about 3 pounds or 1.5 kg.
lsniddy 11y ago
Just because its more complicated than calories in calories out doesnt mean its not true. http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/woman-becomes-obese-after-fecal-transplant-overweight-donor http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/woman-becomes-...
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
heydenberk 11y ago
I find your metaphor agreeable but not your argument: I'd wager that many minivans are running far below optimal gas efficiency because their tires are under-inflated.
zzalpha 11y ago
No one is overweight/obese because of gut bacteria. That is an excellent baseless assertion you have there! Care to back that up with facts? Or should we just take your word for it?
wang_li 11y ago
The issue is that humans are not deterministic machines. We are often presented with internal urges and cravings. We are faced with stresses that lower our ability to maintain discipline. We have different needs, so you can't just adopt a one size fits all plan. And we do have different microbiomes that will create all sorts of issues with respect to our ability to make decisions, exercise and recover. So while it is fundamentally true that a calorie deficit will lead to weight loss, it's not trivial to create a consistent deficit while maintaining good nutrition.
AndrewDucker 11y ago
http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2015/02/04/Woman-becomes-obese-after-fecal-transplant-from-overweight-donor/1581423067944/ http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2015/02/04/Woman-becomes-obes... 35 pounds gained from changing her stomach bacteria.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

soneca 11y ago

Measuring calories burnt and calories consumed is trickier than it looks reading nutriction facts and calories/hour tables. Also, your body is much smarter than you in adapting to changes to calories getting in and out. If you accept that human body do a lot more to influence your behavior than your consciousness realize, you have to admit that not all things depends solely on one's will. Calories consumption are one of those things. Also, you can study large groups of people for macro influences of a diet at humand body. But individually is known to provide a lot of diversity. Two people on the exactly same diet and exercise routine won't have the exactly same body effects. Much of that was put in the account of DNA. But maybe some of this is due to gut bacteria. That's a possibility worth researching.

mattmanser 11y ago
your body is much smarter than you in adapting to changes to calories getting in and out I'm not entirely sure if you're alluding to it but starvation mode is a myth. I would also suggest subscribing to /r/loseit or /r/progresspics for a while and seeing how many of the success stories involve anything more than "I stopped eating so much and now I'm thin!". Sometimes it's "I started keto/paleo, which meant I wasn't eating many calories and now I'm thin!".
- rickdale 11y ago
  While you can apply calories to those situations, at best calories is an incomplete model. A can of tuna and a can of coke both have 120calories. Yet its obvious that those are going to effect the bodies systems in different ways. Also, weight is just one measurement. People that eat paleo and other diets often improve all their health numbers like blood pressure and other stuff. So there is a bigger picture to grasp.
  - mattmanser 11y ago
    Why is it obvious? These are the exact questions that nutritionists are trying to answer without the benefit of being able to force people to eat what they want to test because they're in a Nazi death camp. Do you know, for example, that poor Japanese in the navy used to just eat rice. Nothing else. Just plain rice: https://medium.com/war-is-boring/eating-too-much-rice-almost-sank-the-japanese-navy-f985772c81a6#.5u8adggna https://medium.com/war-is-boring/eating-too-much-rice-almost... Some had to be forced to eat protein by chopping it up into the rice. Or that someone did a twinkie diet and it worked: http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/ http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.profes...

mistermann 11y ago

Metabolism?

cheepin 11y ago
Doesn't matter that much for the majority of people: http://examine.com/faq/does-metabolism-vary-between-two-people/ http://examine.com/faq/does-metabolism-vary-between-two-peop...

colordrops 11y ago

I know you are being facetious, but the attitude you are making fun of is pervasive across the internet. In this specific case, people are not considering that lesser and greater amounts of ingested calories are excreted depending on how much was absorbed during the digestion process. More generally, people cargo cult some scientific sound bite and then stubbornly defend it without considering that they may be wrong since they are backed by "science".