9 ms·

In defense of the Munich police (which is not always friendly but mostly respectful), the current situation in Bavaria is quite unusual due to the refugee crisi

In defense of the Munich police (which is not always friendly but mostly respectful), the current situation in Bavaria is quite unusual due to the refugee crisis and the arrival of thousands of unregistered people every day, which might cause some people in the police force to be a bit on the edge. Being checked when entering Germany from the Netherlands isn't so unusual though, as there are lots of people trafficking drugs across the border (mostly on a small scale though). Friends of mine got checked several times as well even though they're "European looking", but I haven't heard from cases where people got taken to a police station for further inquiry. As a German I'm sorry that this happened, because I actually think we got one of the most friendly and helpful police forces in Europe. Concerning your dismissal at the police station: As far as I know you would have had the right to be driven back to your original location in Munich afterwards. My advice: Complain. In Germany, this is the best way to get what you want :D

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
noobermin 11y ago
Would complaints not have potential to escalate the situation? Speaking as a colored American here. (I haven't been randomly searched before on the street or bus, but I've learned to be deferential if not for the sake of expediency, at the Airport when passing through TSA).
- ThePhysicist 11y ago
  While there inarguably is some -often subtle, occasionally open- racism in Germany the law is usually on your side and the system to enforce it is (mostly) working. Openly arguing and even (verbally) fighting with police men/women isn't so unusual here and I think knowing and insisting on your rights is more likely to make the police handle you more cautiously (as they know you know your rights) rather than escalate the situation. Only speaking from my limited experience as a "European looking" person though, so don't take my word for it.
creshal 11y ago
> the current situation in Bavaria is quite unusual due to the refugee crisis and the arrival of thousands of unregistered people every day, which might cause some people in the police force to be a bit on the edge right now. Politics are making sure they are and breathe down their necks all day. The CSU wants nothing more than an escalation so they can show their voters how hard they crack down on the "evil migrants".
- quonn 11y ago
  > The CSU wants nothing more than an escalation This is going too far. The CSU is against immigration so they would prefer if the refugee crisis would be over. They also really _are_ scared of not "integrating" refugees properly, so the idea that they would prefer a failure seems far-fetched to me.
tomjen3 11y ago
Its Germany police, just slightly hint at them being acting like nazies and they will back away.
- late2part 11y ago
  Does this work for you?
- prodmerc 11y ago
  Or call them Nazis to their face if you want to go on a fun ride :-)
- lawlessone 11y ago
  Bit mean.
  - tomjen3 11y ago
    I agree with that, but if it works.
mohawk 11y ago
Perhaps you think that police are friendly and helpful because of your experiences. So here is a guess: you are white, you have a standard hairstyle, you wear standard clothes. Perhaps we could experimentally test your hypothesis of friendly police behaviour. Start wearing dreadlocks, put on baggy pants and some other more 'hip-hop' looking clothes. Put some colour on your face and make it look darker. Do this for a year, and _then_ tell us what you think.
- ThePhysicist 11y ago
  There definitely is subtle or even open racism in Germany, and it is true that some people will treat you very differently if you look "non-European". Appearance-based or racial profiling is also inarguably done by the police and is definitely injust as well. The best we can do to fight this is to stand up for each other, and in fact I often see people doing this and openly intervening and calling out on people that are being racist. While this does not solve the problem of racism it at least creates a climate where racism is seen as something that is not tolerated, which in turn will help to drive it back.
  - mohawk 11y ago
    I agree 100%. I didn't mean to attack you personally, it's just very easy to become blind to things that don't affect you personally. The last paragraph of the blog post touches on this as well. I still think it would be an interesting experiment, because of course my opinions on Bavarian police are also based on extrapolation from anecdotes that i have heard.
- crusso 11y ago
  So here is a guess: you are white, you have a standard hairstyle, you wear standard clothes. There's nothing like the irony of trying to combat bigotry with generalizations.
  - mohawk 11y ago
    I am from Germany. Bavarian police is famous here. They do profiling based on your looks, it is called "Verdachtsunabhängige Personenkontrolle". I have heard plenty of complaints from people living in Bavaria, e.g. wearing dreadlocks means you are virtually guaranteed a number of searches and stops by police per year, without any probable cause or even a crime having happened. If they did this to the majority of Bavarians, things would change quickly. So therefore my guess...
philangist 11y ago
The author did claim in the article that he's a dutch citizen and presumably the police would know this since they confiscated his passport. I'm not sure about the status of the refugee crisis in Bavaria, but I'd wager a guess that most of the people illegally entering the region or trafficking drugs aren't EU citizens on a business trip. The author wasn't just "checked" (which I assume happens to everyone on the bus), he was asked to get off the bus, searched again on a public street, heard disparaging comments made about him by a police office, and was again checked in the police station and asked to strip naked. Of course I wasn't there and I don't actually know what happened, but from the version of events written here there's a very obvious and very uncomfortable conclusion to be reached. The thing about racism like this is that there's always an element of plausible deniability to it. No cop is going to come out and say "we're detaining you because you're black and you fit the profile", but when it does happen to you it's very obvious what's going on. If anyone is curious, the author's image can be found on his company's website. He's David Asabina - http://en.solarswing.nl/our-team/ http://en.solarswing.nl/our-team/
- ThePhysicist 11y ago
  As I said in another thread, racism is a problem in Germany and you can't deny the fact that people in the police force might be racist or biased against certain groups of people. I just think the picture the author paints of the German police force is maybe a bit too harsh, which is why I tried to find a possible explanation. I can absolutely understand his anger though and I do not try to defend the actions of the police here.
  - discardorama 11y ago
    > racism is a problem in Germany racism is a problem everywhere. As a non-white person, I can assure you that my compatriots are some of the most racist I've met.
  - Drdrdrq 11y ago
    Basing my view on the story he outlined I don't think he is too harsh on them - if anything, I admire him for being able to compose such a civilized letter. There are parts of it which are maybe a bit harsh (better-than-canine sniffing abilities - my words), but I wouldn't be able to restrain myself as much as him in a similar situation.
dao- 11y ago
This defense doesn't quite work out. I've heard these stories about Bavarian police doing Racial Profiling on buses, trains and highways again and again before there was any refugee crisis. Experienced it myself too. It's reality, please don't try to play it down.
corv 11y ago
It's not unusual to be checked coming from Holland. Then again, police being disrespectful, giving condescending replies, being commandeering and taking advantage of uninformed people is not exactly unheard of. In fact, once an individual has been targeted it's par for the course in many a place. It's a shame but no wonder that police force turns abrasive so often given that they handle so many abrasive people.
vsl 11y ago
That so? I'm Czech and Bavarian police is famous here, for years, for targeting Czech cars and bullying the passengers (stops without probable cause, extensive searches under false pretenses, picking all CZ, and only CZ, cars from traffic, the list goes on). "Respectful" is not a word we associate with German cops here.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

noobermin 11y ago

Would complaints not have potential to escalate the situation? Speaking as a colored American here. (I haven't been randomly searched before on the street or bus, but I've learned to be deferential if not for the sake of expediency, at the Airport when passing through TSA).

ThePhysicist 11y ago
While there inarguably is some -often subtle, occasionally open- racism in Germany the law is usually on your side and the system to enforce it is (mostly) working. Openly arguing and even (verbally) fighting with police men/women isn't so unusual here and I think knowing and insisting on your rights is more likely to make the police handle you more cautiously (as they know you know your rights) rather than escalate the situation. Only speaking from my limited experience as a "European looking" person though, so don't take my word for it.

creshal 11y ago

> the current situation in Bavaria is quite unusual due to the refugee crisis and the arrival of thousands of unregistered people every day, which might cause some people in the police force to be a bit on the edge right now. Politics are making sure they are and breathe down their necks all day. The CSU wants nothing more than an escalation so they can show their voters how hard they crack down on the "evil migrants".

quonn 11y ago
> The CSU wants nothing more than an escalation This is going too far. The CSU is against immigration so they would prefer if the refugee crisis would be over. They also really _are_ scared of not "integrating" refugees properly, so the idea that they would prefer a failure seems far-fetched to me.

tomjen3 11y ago

Its Germany police, just slightly hint at them being acting like nazies and they will back away.

late2part 11y ago
Does this work for you?
prodmerc 11y ago
Or call them Nazis to their face if you want to go on a fun ride :-)
lawlessone 11y ago
Bit mean.
- tomjen3 11y ago
  I agree with that, but if it works.

mohawk 11y ago

Perhaps you think that police are friendly and helpful because of your experiences. So here is a guess: you are white, you have a standard hairstyle, you wear standard clothes. Perhaps we could experimentally test your hypothesis of friendly police behaviour. Start wearing dreadlocks, put on baggy pants and some other more 'hip-hop' looking clothes. Put some colour on your face and make it look darker. Do this for a year, and _then_ tell us what you think.

ThePhysicist 11y ago
There definitely is subtle or even open racism in Germany, and it is true that some people will treat you very differently if you look "non-European". Appearance-based or racial profiling is also inarguably done by the police and is definitely injust as well. The best we can do to fight this is to stand up for each other, and in fact I often see people doing this and openly intervening and calling out on people that are being racist. While this does not solve the problem of racism it at least creates a climate where racism is seen as something that is not tolerated, which in turn will help to drive it back.
- mohawk 11y ago
  I agree 100%. I didn't mean to attack you personally, it's just very easy to become blind to things that don't affect you personally. The last paragraph of the blog post touches on this as well. I still think it would be an interesting experiment, because of course my opinions on Bavarian police are also based on extrapolation from anecdotes that i have heard.
crusso 11y ago
So here is a guess: you are white, you have a standard hairstyle, you wear standard clothes. There's nothing like the irony of trying to combat bigotry with generalizations.
- mohawk 11y ago
  I am from Germany. Bavarian police is famous here. They do profiling based on your looks, it is called "Verdachtsunabhängige Personenkontrolle". I have heard plenty of complaints from people living in Bavaria, e.g. wearing dreadlocks means you are virtually guaranteed a number of searches and stops by police per year, without any probable cause or even a crime having happened. If they did this to the majority of Bavarians, things would change quickly. So therefore my guess...

philangist 11y ago

The author did claim in the article that he's a dutch citizen and presumably the police would know this since they confiscated his passport. I'm not sure about the status of the refugee crisis in Bavaria, but I'd wager a guess that most of the people illegally entering the region or trafficking drugs aren't EU citizens on a business trip. The author wasn't just "checked" (which I assume happens to everyone on the bus), he was asked to get off the bus, searched again on a public street, heard disparaging comments made about him by a police office, and was again checked in the police station and asked to strip naked. Of course I wasn't there and I don't actually know what happened, but from the version of events written here there's a very obvious and very uncomfortable conclusion to be reached. The thing about racism like this is that there's always an element of plausible deniability to it. No cop is going to come out and say "we're detaining you because you're black and you fit the profile", but when it does happen to you it's very obvious what's going on. If anyone is curious, the author's image can be found on his company's website. He's David Asabina - http://en.solarswing.nl/our-team/ http://en.solarswing.nl/our-team/

ThePhysicist 11y ago
As I said in another thread, racism is a problem in Germany and you can't deny the fact that people in the police force might be racist or biased against certain groups of people. I just think the picture the author paints of the German police force is maybe a bit too harsh, which is why I tried to find a possible explanation. I can absolutely understand his anger though and I do not try to defend the actions of the police here.
- discardorama 11y ago
  > racism is a problem in Germany racism is a problem everywhere. As a non-white person, I can assure you that my compatriots are some of the most racist I've met.
- Drdrdrq 11y ago
  Basing my view on the story he outlined I don't think he is too harsh on them - if anything, I admire him for being able to compose such a civilized letter. There are parts of it which are maybe a bit harsh (better-than-canine sniffing abilities - my words), but I wouldn't be able to restrain myself as much as him in a similar situation.

dao- 11y ago

This defense doesn't quite work out. I've heard these stories about Bavarian police doing Racial Profiling on buses, trains and highways again and again before there was any refugee crisis. Experienced it myself too. It's reality, please don't try to play it down.

corv 11y ago

It's not unusual to be checked coming from Holland. Then again, police being disrespectful, giving condescending replies, being commandeering and taking advantage of uninformed people is not exactly unheard of. In fact, once an individual has been targeted it's par for the course in many a place. It's a shame but no wonder that police force turns abrasive so often given that they handle so many abrasive people.

vsl 11y ago

That so? I'm Czech and Bavarian police is famous here, for years, for targeting Czech cars and bullying the passengers (stops without probable cause, extensive searches under false pretenses, picking all CZ, and only CZ, cars from traffic, the list goes on). "Respectful" is not a word we associate with German cops here.