3 ms·

According to Keynesian theory, recessions are caused by workers refusing to accept work at a lower nominal wage and instead become unemployed. The concern with

According to Keynesian theory, recessions are caused by workers refusing to accept work at a lower nominal wage and instead become unemployed. The concern with a direct helicopter drop is that it might enable workers to refuse to work for longer. As an example of this, consider the semi-"helicopter drop" of money we had during the last recession: the extension of unemployment benefits. It turns out benefit cuts cause workers to accept jobs. http://c0.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/w20884.pdf http://c0.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/w20884.pdf

digi_owl 11y ago
Frankly that "theory" is so out there that it pees on the name of Keynes. It comes out of a massive abuse of preference curves, a model that itself have some massive assumptions bouncing around (like that if your income increases, you will not switch preferences completely, just keep buying more of one or the other). As for cutting benefits makes workers accept jobs, no surprise there. Cut benefits and it is accept anything or starve. Basically it is wage-slavery.
- yummyfajitas 11y ago
  What, exactly, do you believe Keynesian theory claims? Specifically, how do you believe Keynesian theory explains involuntary unemployment? (Involuntary unemployment is when workers are employed at a wage K, and other workers are unemployed but have a reservation wage of K.) Given that you agree with my factual claim (that giving people money directly causes unemployment), what do you disagree with me on? Is it just my mood affiliation that you dislike?
  - Gibbon1 11y ago
    I think Keynes was firmly in the camp that involuntary unemployment in a depression+ is caused by a cascading demand shortfall due to everyone trying to put their money in safe assets and pay off debt vs consume. + As opposed to a central bank engineered recession.
    - yummyfajitas 11y ago
      Can you draw a supply/demand curve illustrating a demand shortfall + flexible wages causing involuntary unemployment? I've certainly never seen such a thing. Classical (not Keynesian) economics does explain how a demand shortfall causes voluntary unemployment. It also explains how helicopter drops + substitution effect can cause voluntary unemployment. Involuntary unemployment is the tricky bit.
      - Gibbon1 11y ago
        You haven't seen such a thing because wages aren't flexible, wages are sticky. Everyone of course knows that from direct experience. However it drives post war economists completely mad+ so they invent concepts like voluntary unemployment to explain it away. + Post-war economists are obsessed with linear equations and closed form solutions that look like the 'laws' the guys in the physics department rely on. However once you take into account that wages (and rents!) are sticky, that means changing a workers wages from $10/hr -> $11/hr is different than $11/hr -> $10/hr. And then you're nice happy linear equations go out the window and you enter the land of Chaos theory.
        yummyfajitas 11y ago
        Wages are sticky? If only I thought of that - then I probably would have said "recessions are caused by workers refusing to accept work at a lower nominal wage and instead become unemployed" in my very first post. I'm glad we are in complete agreement (apart from mood affiliation).

digi_owl 11y ago

Frankly that "theory" is so out there that it pees on the name of Keynes. It comes out of a massive abuse of preference curves, a model that itself have some massive assumptions bouncing around (like that if your income increases, you will not switch preferences completely, just keep buying more of one or the other). As for cutting benefits makes workers accept jobs, no surprise there. Cut benefits and it is accept anything or starve. Basically it is wage-slavery.

yummyfajitas 11y ago
What, exactly, do you believe Keynesian theory claims? Specifically, how do you believe Keynesian theory explains involuntary unemployment? (Involuntary unemployment is when workers are employed at a wage K, and other workers are unemployed but have a reservation wage of K.) Given that you agree with my factual claim (that giving people money directly causes unemployment), what do you disagree with me on? Is it just my mood affiliation that you dislike?
- Gibbon1 11y ago
  I think Keynes was firmly in the camp that involuntary unemployment in a depression+ is caused by a cascading demand shortfall due to everyone trying to put their money in safe assets and pay off debt vs consume. + As opposed to a central bank engineered recession.
  - yummyfajitas 11y ago
    Can you draw a supply/demand curve illustrating a demand shortfall + flexible wages causing involuntary unemployment? I've certainly never seen such a thing. Classical (not Keynesian) economics does explain how a demand shortfall causes voluntary unemployment. It also explains how helicopter drops + substitution effect can cause voluntary unemployment. Involuntary unemployment is the tricky bit.
    - Gibbon1 11y ago
      You haven't seen such a thing because wages aren't flexible, wages are sticky. Everyone of course knows that from direct experience. However it drives post war economists completely mad+ so they invent concepts like voluntary unemployment to explain it away. + Post-war economists are obsessed with linear equations and closed form solutions that look like the 'laws' the guys in the physics department rely on. However once you take into account that wages (and rents!) are sticky, that means changing a workers wages from $10/hr -> $11/hr is different than $11/hr -> $10/hr. And then you're nice happy linear equations go out the window and you enter the land of Chaos theory.
      - yummyfajitas 11y ago
        Wages are sticky? If only I thought of that - then I probably would have said "recessions are caused by workers refusing to accept work at a lower nominal wage and instead become unemployed" in my very first post. I'm glad we are in complete agreement (apart from mood affiliation).