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I wonder when a guy who robs a liquor store can get the same deal as these white-collar tax cheats: steal $500, and avoid criminal charges in exchange for payin

by gohrt 11y ago

I wonder when a guy who robs a liquor store can get the same deal as these white-collar tax cheats: steal $500, and avoid criminal charges in exchange for paying $250 restitution.

vonklaus 11y ago
Do you think that a person or company retaining the money they earned over the fiscal year, or not paying as much as they should to their gov't, can aptly be compared to armed theft of someone-else property? I mean, if we are making analogies about armed theft, like one good one is taxes.
- mercurial 11y ago
  This is a stupid analogy. People dodging taxes rob from the commons, essentially. If you're not satisfied with what the government does with your taxes and you live in a democratic society, get out and vote, a benefit you enjoy due to your taxes, as well as things like security, a justice system and (depending on your country) an efficient healthcare and welfare system, all paid for by your taxes. Just like a normal government should also spend a significant amount of your money on supporting the less well-off in the society.
  - vonklaus 11y ago
    Yeah mate, makes sense. I'll just get out and vote. It isn't like there are limited choices, entrenched political ideologies, a significant amount of friction, or a massive power distance relationship between constituents and representatives. America is a Democratish society and there is a pretty high level of dilution between my/societies views and laws. I vote(just kidding, I don't actually vote but let's accept the hypothetical) for a representative for congress. That gives me the option to have 4 people representing me in ALL of congress, assuming that the people I wanted to win progressed AND that they represent my views broadly enough. There are 535 people in congress, if we assume my 2 house reps and my 2 senators map my views at a 1:1 ratio (they don't, at all, nor do nearly anyone's in America) then, if you generously round up from .0074, my views are indirectly represented for me and are around 1%. Luckily, we live in a world where there are lots of great choices for Senators, Representatives and Presedential canidates and absolutely no outside interests interloping on the process. So I vote often. Every year, I don't turn up to the polls and vote to not participate. My single vote not being casts detracts a tiny bit of legitimacy from a system I want to fail, and I can hope for a better future.[0] [0]Someone on HN articulated this really well, and I would love to find the quote from him/her, but it perfectly summed up my own thoughts.
SeoxyS 11y ago
More like: robber has $1000 to his name, robs the liquor store for $500; avoids criminal charges by paying $750 restitution. (The article mentioned half of the account balance, not half of the amount of taxes owed.) But the real difference is that while robbing a liquor store is universally viewed as unethical; that isn't the case with tax evasion. Many people (including, ironically, the founders of the USA, who seceded from the British over taxation) believe that taxes are unethical, and using every loophole and trick in the book to minimize taxes is both ethical and smart.
- vonklaus 11y ago
  I totally agree. Just to add, playing the game well and keeping your own money is borderline unethical/illegal depending on where you land on the issue but it is your money. Threatening someone else at gunpoint, and taking their money is quite different than simply keeping your own and not paying a fair share.
zouhair 11y ago
Because the laws are not written by liquor store thieves.

by gohrt 11y ago

I wonder when a guy who robs a liquor store can get the same deal as these white-collar tax cheats: steal $500, and avoid criminal charges in exchange for paying $250 restitution.

vonklaus 11y ago

Do you think that a person or company retaining the money they earned over the fiscal year, or not paying as much as they should to their gov't, can aptly be compared to armed theft of someone-else property? I mean, if we are making analogies about armed theft, like one good one is taxes.

mercurial 11y ago
This is a stupid analogy. People dodging taxes rob from the commons, essentially. If you're not satisfied with what the government does with your taxes and you live in a democratic society, get out and vote, a benefit you enjoy due to your taxes, as well as things like security, a justice system and (depending on your country) an efficient healthcare and welfare system, all paid for by your taxes. Just like a normal government should also spend a significant amount of your money on supporting the less well-off in the society.
- vonklaus 11y ago
  Yeah mate, makes sense. I'll just get out and vote. It isn't like there are limited choices, entrenched political ideologies, a significant amount of friction, or a massive power distance relationship between constituents and representatives. America is a Democratish society and there is a pretty high level of dilution between my/societies views and laws. I vote(just kidding, I don't actually vote but let's accept the hypothetical) for a representative for congress. That gives me the option to have 4 people representing me in ALL of congress, assuming that the people I wanted to win progressed AND that they represent my views broadly enough. There are 535 people in congress, if we assume my 2 house reps and my 2 senators map my views at a 1:1 ratio (they don't, at all, nor do nearly anyone's in America) then, if you generously round up from .0074, my views are indirectly represented for me and are around 1%. Luckily, we live in a world where there are lots of great choices for Senators, Representatives and Presedential canidates and absolutely no outside interests interloping on the process. So I vote often. Every year, I don't turn up to the polls and vote to not participate. My single vote not being casts detracts a tiny bit of legitimacy from a system I want to fail, and I can hope for a better future.[0] [0]Someone on HN articulated this really well, and I would love to find the quote from him/her, but it perfectly summed up my own thoughts.

SeoxyS 11y ago

More like: robber has $1000 to his name, robs the liquor store for $500; avoids criminal charges by paying $750 restitution. (The article mentioned half of the account balance, not half of the amount of taxes owed.) But the real difference is that while robbing a liquor store is universally viewed as unethical; that isn't the case with tax evasion. Many people (including, ironically, the founders of the USA, who seceded from the British over taxation) believe that taxes are unethical, and using every loophole and trick in the book to minimize taxes is both ethical and smart.

vonklaus 11y ago
I totally agree. Just to add, playing the game well and keeping your own money is borderline unethical/illegal depending on where you land on the issue but it is your money. Threatening someone else at gunpoint, and taking their money is quite different than simply keeping your own and not paying a fair share.

zouhair 11y ago

Because the laws are not written by liquor store thieves.