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> The whole private prison thing makes me want to vomit. I'm not sure this is the fundamental problem. Seattle jail is run by King County Corrections and it's

> The whole private prison thing makes me want to vomit. I'm not sure this is the fundamental problem. Seattle jail is run by King County Corrections and it's a human rights disaster.

jacquesm 11y ago
That's terrible but it does not make commercial prisons 'good' in any way shape or form.
- thatswrong0 11y ago
  I don't think anyone is arguing that. But the private prison issue is certainly overblown - their existence is not the reason why things in the U.S. criminal justice system are so bad. They were created in _response_ to prison overcrowding in the late 80s to reduce costs. And the number of prisoners in private prisons is tiny compared to the general prison population. They are a problem, but not the problem. Don't take it from me, take it from a prison reform organization: http://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2015/10/07/private_prisons_parasite/ http://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2015/10/07/private_prisons_...
  - jacquesm 11y ago
    Sure. But the idea here is that there are many things wrong and that there is no reason to just tackle one of those things or do them serially. Some parties chose to challenge some elements of the criminal system directly, others choose to focus on other aspects of the problem. There is room for all of these. For the 7% or so that is in private prisons (commercial prisons would probably be a better term anyway) the situation is bad in ways that it isn't for the others and it is worth addressing those problems (to them for sure). To say this doesn't warrant any attention is similar to saying that we don't need to do space travel or fundamental research before we've cured world hunger, cancer and aids because those address bigger and immediate problems. There is room for all of the above.
nrb 11y ago
It absolutely is a fundamental problem. Just because government-run prisons have some overlap in their human rights abuses with private-run doesn't excuse the business model of the latter. When you are paid by the bed, it is in your best interest to lobby for stronger sentencing guidelines[1] to gain and keep as many inmates as you can, and bleed as much cash out of them as possible in the process. In some cases you even have detention centers bribing judges[2] to lock away children in exchange for cash. 1. http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/09/private-prisons-occupancy-quota-cca-crime http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/09/private-prisons-occu... 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal
- crapshoot101 11y ago
  This is a fair point, and I don't disagree, but the lobbying is by no means limited to private corporations. For the best example, look at California and the State prison guard unions, who have consistently argued for more mandatory sentencing guidelines and for more prisons, which enriching themselves in the process. I want to reiterate that I'm with you on private prisons, but the basic point remains that any group (public or private) will act in what it perceives as its best interests, whether those jibe with the platonic ideal or not. http://mic.com/articles/41531/union-of-the-snake-how-california-s-prison-guards-subvert-democracy http://mic.com/articles/41531/union-of-the-snake-how-califor...

> The whole private prison thing makes me want to vomit. I'm not sure this is the fundamental problem. Seattle jail is run by King County Corrections and it's a human rights disaster.

jacquesm 11y ago

That's terrible but it does not make commercial prisons 'good' in any way shape or form.

thatswrong0 11y ago
I don't think anyone is arguing that. But the private prison issue is certainly overblown - their existence is not the reason why things in the U.S. criminal justice system are so bad. They were created in _response_ to prison overcrowding in the late 80s to reduce costs. And the number of prisoners in private prisons is tiny compared to the general prison population. They are a problem, but not the problem. Don't take it from me, take it from a prison reform organization: http://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2015/10/07/private_prisons_parasite/ http://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2015/10/07/private_prisons_...
- jacquesm 11y ago
  Sure. But the idea here is that there are many things wrong and that there is no reason to just tackle one of those things or do them serially. Some parties chose to challenge some elements of the criminal system directly, others choose to focus on other aspects of the problem. There is room for all of these. For the 7% or so that is in private prisons (commercial prisons would probably be a better term anyway) the situation is bad in ways that it isn't for the others and it is worth addressing those problems (to them for sure). To say this doesn't warrant any attention is similar to saying that we don't need to do space travel or fundamental research before we've cured world hunger, cancer and aids because those address bigger and immediate problems. There is room for all of the above.

nrb 11y ago

It absolutely is a fundamental problem. Just because government-run prisons have some overlap in their human rights abuses with private-run doesn't excuse the business model of the latter. When you are paid by the bed, it is in your best interest to lobby for stronger sentencing guidelines[1] to gain and keep as many inmates as you can, and bleed as much cash out of them as possible in the process. In some cases you even have detention centers bribing judges[2] to lock away children in exchange for cash. 1. http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/09/private-prisons-occupancy-quota-cca-crime http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/09/private-prisons-occu... 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal

crapshoot101 11y ago
This is a fair point, and I don't disagree, but the lobbying is by no means limited to private corporations. For the best example, look at California and the State prison guard unions, who have consistently argued for more mandatory sentencing guidelines and for more prisons, which enriching themselves in the process. I want to reiterate that I'm with you on private prisons, but the basic point remains that any group (public or private) will act in what it perceives as its best interests, whether those jibe with the platonic ideal or not. http://mic.com/articles/41531/union-of-the-snake-how-california-s-prison-guards-subvert-democracy http://mic.com/articles/41531/union-of-the-snake-how-califor...