4 ms·

it's so far out the mainstream, that people have been doing it regularly for 20 years now. Grub is old enough to attend Junior High. Lilo would be in grad scho

it's so far out the mainstream, that people have been doing it regularly for 20 years now. Grub is old enough to attend Junior High. Lilo would be in grad school. they both have windows compatability. Microsoft not reciprocating is evidence of their intent.

TodPunk 11y ago
"People" in this instance is a handful of special edge cases compared to the majority of computer users, even if we're only looking at people that build their own computer, or hell, even just looking at only linux users. Dual booting is a minority. Yes, you CAN do it. Linux has made it easy. Great! But not many DO. Nobody gives hell to every other OS manufacturer that will clobber our current bootloader configs. That means more than OSX, btw.
eropple 11y ago
FreeBSD used to (maybe still does?) clobber the boot loader too. Do they also have mustachios that they evilly twirl?
- krylon 11y ago
  On the other hand, Windows runs on 85 - 90 percent of desktop machines, whereas FreeBSD's market share on the desktop is probably below 1%. (This is not a judgement on FreeBSD's quality as a desktop system, I have used it myself for about two years and was very happy with it. But compared to Windows, its market share on the desktop is tiny.) For better or worse, there is a difference between a system used by a tiny minority of people (again: on the desktop) and a system that practically has a monopoly on the (corporate) desktop and that is developed and sold by a company that has a history of anti-competitive behavior. (And to be fair, I get the impression that things have begun to change at Microsoft since Nadella became CEO. But that still does not erase history.)
  - eropple 11y ago
    That other hand and its callbacks to anti-competitive behavior and whispers of monopolies don't have much bearing on anything unless you are prepared to substantiate exactly how this behavior impacts the market share of other competitors. (I wish you luck on that very, very long row to hoe.) Meanwhile, even that "good behaving" Linux distro will happily remove Windows's boot record in favor of GRUB's, rendering the system reliant on a component that breaks if you want to remove Linux (and most people are way more likely to want to remove Linux than to remove Windows!). Hardly neighborly behavior in and of itself. And yet, I'm still not seeing a reason to cast aspersions on GRUB or Linux distros, nor am I seeing those twirly mustachios on their faces. No OS gives much of a damn about anything else running on the computer. Claims to the contrary are literally farcical and the pseudo-damages it could theoretically cause to the easily bruised are silly.
    - krylon 11y ago
      > No OS gives much of a damn about anything else running on the computer. Most Linux distros (the ones I have used, at least) will detect an existing Windows installation and put a corresponding entry into GRUB's menu. Linux has been able to access data on Windows partitions for many, many years. I agree that the boot loader issue probably has at most negligible impact on the adoption of Linux (or any other OS for that matter). I am just saying that in light of Microsoft's history one may feel inclined to judge them differently.
    - anonbanker 11y ago
      you, sir, are excellent at using propaganda to discount people's claims. when malice is assumed, you discount it with "mustachio twirling" strawmen. Now, instead of talking about the parent's point of direct anticompetitive behavior, we're somehow discussing "whispers of monopolies" that somehow put the burden of proof back on the grandparent, even though anyone older than 24 knows why microsoft is still not to be trusted. I'm bookmarking your profile, so I can study your future comments. you seem to be on the bleeding edge of these advances. thank you for the excellent study tools.
      - eropple 11y ago
- anonbanker 11y ago
  As you used it twice in this thread, I'm going to add "mustache twirl" (or variation) do my dictionary of rhetorical devices used to make an attack seem like less of an attack. it's very effective at disarming someone that calls it out. Thanks for this.

TodPunk 11y ago

"People" in this instance is a handful of special edge cases compared to the majority of computer users, even if we're only looking at people that build their own computer, or hell, even just looking at only linux users. Dual booting is a minority. Yes, you CAN do it. Linux has made it easy. Great! But not many DO. Nobody gives hell to every other OS manufacturer that will clobber our current bootloader configs. That means more than OSX, btw.

eropple 11y ago

FreeBSD used to (maybe still does?) clobber the boot loader too. Do they also have mustachios that they evilly twirl?

krylon 11y ago
On the other hand, Windows runs on 85 - 90 percent of desktop machines, whereas FreeBSD's market share on the desktop is probably below 1%. (This is not a judgement on FreeBSD's quality as a desktop system, I have used it myself for about two years and was very happy with it. But compared to Windows, its market share on the desktop is tiny.) For better or worse, there is a difference between a system used by a tiny minority of people (again: on the desktop) and a system that practically has a monopoly on the (corporate) desktop and that is developed and sold by a company that has a history of anti-competitive behavior. (And to be fair, I get the impression that things have begun to change at Microsoft since Nadella became CEO. But that still does not erase history.)
- eropple 11y ago
  That other hand and its callbacks to anti-competitive behavior and whispers of monopolies don't have much bearing on anything unless you are prepared to substantiate exactly how this behavior impacts the market share of other competitors. (I wish you luck on that very, very long row to hoe.) Meanwhile, even that "good behaving" Linux distro will happily remove Windows's boot record in favor of GRUB's, rendering the system reliant on a component that breaks if you want to remove Linux (and most people are way more likely to want to remove Linux than to remove Windows!). Hardly neighborly behavior in and of itself. And yet, I'm still not seeing a reason to cast aspersions on GRUB or Linux distros, nor am I seeing those twirly mustachios on their faces. No OS gives much of a damn about anything else running on the computer. Claims to the contrary are literally farcical and the pseudo-damages it could theoretically cause to the easily bruised are silly.
  - krylon 11y ago
    > No OS gives much of a damn about anything else running on the computer. Most Linux distros (the ones I have used, at least) will detect an existing Windows installation and put a corresponding entry into GRUB's menu. Linux has been able to access data on Windows partitions for many, many years. I agree that the boot loader issue probably has at most negligible impact on the adoption of Linux (or any other OS for that matter). I am just saying that in light of Microsoft's history one may feel inclined to judge them differently.
  - anonbanker 11y ago
    you, sir, are excellent at using propaganda to discount people's claims. when malice is assumed, you discount it with "mustachio twirling" strawmen. Now, instead of talking about the parent's point of direct anticompetitive behavior, we're somehow discussing "whispers of monopolies" that somehow put the burden of proof back on the grandparent, even though anyone older than 24 knows why microsoft is still not to be trusted. I'm bookmarking your profile, so I can study your future comments. you seem to be on the bleeding edge of these advances. thank you for the excellent study tools.
    - eropple 11y ago
anonbanker 11y ago
As you used it twice in this thread, I'm going to add "mustache twirl" (or variation) do my dictionary of rhetorical devices used to make an attack seem like less of an attack. it's very effective at disarming someone that calls it out. Thanks for this.