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If you're curious as to real reasons, perhaps you should look for the more articulate people who took a stand against this cultural appropriation. Not what Shau

If you're curious as to real reasons, perhaps you should look for the more articulate people who took a stand against this cultural appropriation. Not what Shaun O'dwyer warns you about "sophomoric manifestos". It says something that this article against anti-racism protestors, which has nothing serious to do with "hacking" is #2 now on HN. (Or hey, let's have more articles about pop singers wearing kimonos, to pore over and learn hacking techniques.) At least these protestors actually used tech to "disrupt" something, unlike the startups which use the term as doublethink.

deciplex 11y ago
> At least these protestors actually used tech to "disrupt" something, unlike the startups which use the term as doublethink. Yeah, they disrupted a totally harmless event put on by the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston and the Japan Broadcasting Corporation (NHK).
mikekchar 11y ago
Honestly, I don't get it. If you have something that is understandable, I wouldn't mind a link to it (don't want to start a flame war, though). I'm Canadian and live in Japan. I wear Japanese clothes very frequently, especially in the summer (jinbei, yukata, geta). I like them. They are comfortable. I live in the country side and nobody bats an eyelid. The one time I wore a jinbei to a baseball game in Tokyo, I got many compliments from people on the street. Like I said. I don't get it. They are clothes. Wouldn't it be racist to say I can't wear them because I'm not Japanese? Similarly, I can't actually think of any class/race implications for women wearing a kimono. It's not different from a suit or dress (other than it is really complicated to get on ;-) ). This just seems bizarre to me. I wonder if the people involved just don't understand what a kimono is?
- wobbleblob 11y ago
  I wonder if it's preferable for the entire world to dress like late 19th century Englishmen at work (business suit) or like mid 20th century Americans at home (jeans, t-shirt).
  - mikekchar 11y ago
    It actually baffles me that most Japanese men dress that way. Japanese clothes (for men) are much better suited to the Japanese climate. Women's clothes are another matter. A kimono (well "kimono" just means "clothes", but you know what I mean) is complicated to wear and can be uncomfortable. My wife enjoys wearing them, though and will wear one whenever she gets a chance (she is Japanese). I work from home, so I very often work in Japanese clothes. If I was working in an office, bizarrely I wouldn't have that choice. A suit is the only thing acceptable, except in summer where you can wear an open collar white dress shirt without a coat or tie. I can't understand what is wrong with hakama and haori, though. Not business-like :-P. But when I've worked in offices, I never complained. I guess I'm becoming Japanese ;-)
    - deciplex 11y ago
      Japanese business suits are made of very thin material and actually wear pretty well in the summer. You're probably right that they don't wear as well as traditional dress, but it's not nearly as bad as you're probably thinking, if you're thinking they're wearing the same outfit you'd wear in, say, NY in the winter or something.
      - mikekchar 11y ago
        They are still hot :-) I wore a suit to work (in Japan) every day for 5 years. Having said that, I really liked wearing a tie in the winter because it actually kept me quite a bit warmer. Now because I work from home, I will often wear a jinbei or yukata when I'm working. I don't actually own hakama right now, so I'm not sure how they compare to trousers in every day use. I've worn them before, though, and don't recall them being overly warm. I think it would be a bit strange to wear hakama at home, though... This thread really piqued my interest because when I first started wearing Japanese clothes I was a bit self conscious. But Japanese people always told me it was fine. Now, if I walk down to the izakaya in my jinbei and geta, I'm just like all the other old guys in the neighbourhood ;-) I experienced quite a lot of racism from expats in Japan who thought it was unacceptable for me to have Japanese friends, watch Japanese TV shows and read Japanese books. They kept saying, "You will never be one of them. They will never accept you." Eventually I had to distance myself from that community. The other day, one of the neighbourhood children was playing with their friend. The friend walked up to me and tried out their English. The neighbourhood girl said, "Oh don't bother. He's Japanese." Home is not always where you were born.
- krapp 11y ago
  I think part of the "problem" is that, for Japanese people, they're clothes, but Westerners see them as costumes, like samurai armor or something. It's telling that just about every article I've read about this that bothered to ask anyone in Japan about it mentions that Japanese people aren't offended at all by Westerners wearing a kimono. It's only Americans being offended on their behalf, which does seem a bit infantile. Especially when Japan wants the wider world to be interested in their culture and to buy into it.
  - cthalupa 11y ago
    >for Japanese people, they're clothes, but Westerners see them as costumes In urban Japan for the current generation they are very much reaching the level of costume - reserved for special occasions, festivals, etc.
  - Nadya 11y ago
    >It's telling that just about every article I've read about this that bothered to ask anyone in Japan about it mentions that Japanese people aren't offended at all by Westerners wearing a kimono. Two words: "white guilt" This comic rings true in more ways than one: https://moonmetropolis.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/sjw-comic.jpg https://moonmetropolis.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/sjw-comic... When I went to Japan my language exchange partner often commented on foreigners wearing kimono. They commented how they enjoyed that other people liked the things Japan is known for. That for many tourists wearing a kimono in Japan is one of their greatest joys! And that joy others had made her happy, not upset.
- Gibbon1 11y ago
  The Japanese aren't offended because they are supremely confident in their culture. And yeah the people complaining have no idea what a Kimono is. It's dress not some sophomoric romanticized sacred essence of Japanese culture thing.

deciplex 11y ago

> At least these protestors actually used tech to "disrupt" something, unlike the startups which use the term as doublethink. Yeah, they disrupted a totally harmless event put on by the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston and the Japan Broadcasting Corporation (NHK).

mikekchar 11y ago

Honestly, I don't get it. If you have something that is understandable, I wouldn't mind a link to it (don't want to start a flame war, though). I'm Canadian and live in Japan. I wear Japanese clothes very frequently, especially in the summer (jinbei, yukata, geta). I like them. They are comfortable. I live in the country side and nobody bats an eyelid. The one time I wore a jinbei to a baseball game in Tokyo, I got many compliments from people on the street. Like I said. I don't get it. They are clothes. Wouldn't it be racist to say I can't wear them because I'm not Japanese? Similarly, I can't actually think of any class/race implications for women wearing a kimono. It's not different from a suit or dress (other than it is really complicated to get on ;-) ). This just seems bizarre to me. I wonder if the people involved just don't understand what a kimono is?

wobbleblob 11y ago
I wonder if it's preferable for the entire world to dress like late 19th century Englishmen at work (business suit) or like mid 20th century Americans at home (jeans, t-shirt).
- mikekchar 11y ago
  It actually baffles me that most Japanese men dress that way. Japanese clothes (for men) are much better suited to the Japanese climate. Women's clothes are another matter. A kimono (well "kimono" just means "clothes", but you know what I mean) is complicated to wear and can be uncomfortable. My wife enjoys wearing them, though and will wear one whenever she gets a chance (she is Japanese). I work from home, so I very often work in Japanese clothes. If I was working in an office, bizarrely I wouldn't have that choice. A suit is the only thing acceptable, except in summer where you can wear an open collar white dress shirt without a coat or tie. I can't understand what is wrong with hakama and haori, though. Not business-like :-P. But when I've worked in offices, I never complained. I guess I'm becoming Japanese ;-)
  - deciplex 11y ago
    Japanese business suits are made of very thin material and actually wear pretty well in the summer. You're probably right that they don't wear as well as traditional dress, but it's not nearly as bad as you're probably thinking, if you're thinking they're wearing the same outfit you'd wear in, say, NY in the winter or something.
    - mikekchar 11y ago
      They are still hot :-) I wore a suit to work (in Japan) every day for 5 years. Having said that, I really liked wearing a tie in the winter because it actually kept me quite a bit warmer. Now because I work from home, I will often wear a jinbei or yukata when I'm working. I don't actually own hakama right now, so I'm not sure how they compare to trousers in every day use. I've worn them before, though, and don't recall them being overly warm. I think it would be a bit strange to wear hakama at home, though... This thread really piqued my interest because when I first started wearing Japanese clothes I was a bit self conscious. But Japanese people always told me it was fine. Now, if I walk down to the izakaya in my jinbei and geta, I'm just like all the other old guys in the neighbourhood ;-) I experienced quite a lot of racism from expats in Japan who thought it was unacceptable for me to have Japanese friends, watch Japanese TV shows and read Japanese books. They kept saying, "You will never be one of them. They will never accept you." Eventually I had to distance myself from that community. The other day, one of the neighbourhood children was playing with their friend. The friend walked up to me and tried out their English. The neighbourhood girl said, "Oh don't bother. He's Japanese." Home is not always where you were born.
krapp 11y ago
I think part of the "problem" is that, for Japanese people, they're clothes, but Westerners see them as costumes, like samurai armor or something. It's telling that just about every article I've read about this that bothered to ask anyone in Japan about it mentions that Japanese people aren't offended at all by Westerners wearing a kimono. It's only Americans being offended on their behalf, which does seem a bit infantile. Especially when Japan wants the wider world to be interested in their culture and to buy into it.
- cthalupa 11y ago
  >for Japanese people, they're clothes, but Westerners see them as costumes In urban Japan for the current generation they are very much reaching the level of costume - reserved for special occasions, festivals, etc.
- Nadya 11y ago
  >It's telling that just about every article I've read about this that bothered to ask anyone in Japan about it mentions that Japanese people aren't offended at all by Westerners wearing a kimono. Two words: "white guilt" This comic rings true in more ways than one: https://moonmetropolis.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/sjw-comic.jpg https://moonmetropolis.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/sjw-comic... When I went to Japan my language exchange partner often commented on foreigners wearing kimono. They commented how they enjoyed that other people liked the things Japan is known for. That for many tourists wearing a kimono in Japan is one of their greatest joys! And that joy others had made her happy, not upset.
Gibbon1 11y ago
The Japanese aren't offended because they are supremely confident in their culture. And yeah the people complaining have no idea what a Kimono is. It's dress not some sophomoric romanticized sacred essence of Japanese culture thing.