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Capital trumps labour, yet again. Talk about a brave new (terrible) world. How is anybody without amazing talent, IQ, and luck in the birth-location lottery, s

Capital trumps labour, yet again. Talk about a brave new (terrible) world. How is anybody without amazing talent, IQ, and luck in the birth-location lottery, supposed to survive? How are these awful machines helping to advance the wellbeing of humanity? By destroying livelihoods for a few pennies cheaper bananas to those who can already afford to pay more?

ItsDeathball 11y ago
In the long run, humanity is better off if we're not paying people below minimum wage under the table to pick pears. If a portion of the surplus value generated by these awful machines can be captured and paid to the people they displace, those people can then do something they actually enjoy.
- vegabook 11y ago
  Very true if, and only if, "a portion of the surplus value generated by these awful machines can be captured and paid to the people they displace". But a very small group of financiers/entrepreneurs/VCs own all the machines, their ownership of the machines gives them an advantage in owning even more machines, and it is not in their nature (ie, human nature) for them to spread the sunshine. That's the problem. That's why we have a vast underclass already today, and it's not getting any smaller, despite the wishful thinking of the technerati (of which I am one).
  - cheald 11y ago
    The surplus value created by these machines results in a net cost (and thus price) reduction for pears, which consumers (among whom the displaced count themselves) benefit from. Technology drives down production costs, which results in cheaper goods and eventually substitution of inferior goods with superior goods, which is why even the underclass can afford things today which would have once been the strict domain of the upper classes.
kmicklas 11y ago
The suffering this thing would cause is a failure of our economic and political systems... not the fault of technology.
sliverstorm 11y ago
How are these awful machines helping to advance the wellbeing of humanity? Hypothetically, by freeing humanity from hard manual labor and making goods less costly. Machines have a long history of advancing the wellbeing of humanity. The fire bow, wheel, pottery wheel, bicycle, ox cart, lever, ramp, plow... I could go on and on, from ancient to modern. The modern textile industry is a much closer advancement, that made clothing manyfold more affordable and freed countless people from unforgiving constant manual labor.
- vegabook 11y ago
  That sorting fruit is "hard labour" is actually coincidental. The real skill is pattern recognition and dextrosity. Skills widely deployed by humans today. We're now on the cusp of destroying this, another whole class of human employability. I am not as confident as you that we can simply extrapolate the past ad infinitum (ie: the "we will adapt and flourish" dogma). It seems to me we're reaching some inflection points in the trend where real, painful adjustment will occur. Recall that the 19th century's "innovations" created vast misery then, and war for 50 years 50 years later, before we adjusted. For those of us (un)lucky enough to be alive today, the immediate future seems very bleak indeed. Thanks to thinking machines.
  - sliverstorm 11y ago
    Well, first of all painful adjustment in the immediate future is worth the permanent advancement after the adjustment. Second of all I feel we have every reason to believe advancements like this are inexorable, so I would rather devote my thoughts to how best to handle them rather than how to stop them or to lament how unfortunate it is. I would also argue that the greatest skill humanity possess is not dexterity, pattern matching, or anything else like that. But, rather, adapting.
    - vegabook 11y ago
      The inevitability assumption. Not borne out by history. There are very long periods of regression if you look at the century-level scale, and it is not unreasonable to contemplate the potential that we might be getting towards "peak tech", right, now. Will technology move upwards? Most likely. Will technology move in an uninterrupted straight line upwards? most unlikely.
vacri 11y ago
If we get enough of this kind of technology, then Basic Income might become a reality, through sheer political necessity.

ItsDeathball 11y ago

In the long run, humanity is better off if we're not paying people below minimum wage under the table to pick pears. If a portion of the surplus value generated by these awful machines can be captured and paid to the people they displace, those people can then do something they actually enjoy.

vegabook 11y ago
Very true if, and only if, "a portion of the surplus value generated by these awful machines can be captured and paid to the people they displace". But a very small group of financiers/entrepreneurs/VCs own all the machines, their ownership of the machines gives them an advantage in owning even more machines, and it is not in their nature (ie, human nature) for them to spread the sunshine. That's the problem. That's why we have a vast underclass already today, and it's not getting any smaller, despite the wishful thinking of the technerati (of which I am one).
- cheald 11y ago
  The surplus value created by these machines results in a net cost (and thus price) reduction for pears, which consumers (among whom the displaced count themselves) benefit from. Technology drives down production costs, which results in cheaper goods and eventually substitution of inferior goods with superior goods, which is why even the underclass can afford things today which would have once been the strict domain of the upper classes.

kmicklas 11y ago

The suffering this thing would cause is a failure of our economic and political systems... not the fault of technology.

sliverstorm 11y ago

How are these awful machines helping to advance the wellbeing of humanity? Hypothetically, by freeing humanity from hard manual labor and making goods less costly. Machines have a long history of advancing the wellbeing of humanity. The fire bow, wheel, pottery wheel, bicycle, ox cart, lever, ramp, plow... I could go on and on, from ancient to modern. The modern textile industry is a much closer advancement, that made clothing manyfold more affordable and freed countless people from unforgiving constant manual labor.

vegabook 11y ago
That sorting fruit is "hard labour" is actually coincidental. The real skill is pattern recognition and dextrosity. Skills widely deployed by humans today. We're now on the cusp of destroying this, another whole class of human employability. I am not as confident as you that we can simply extrapolate the past ad infinitum (ie: the "we will adapt and flourish" dogma). It seems to me we're reaching some inflection points in the trend where real, painful adjustment will occur. Recall that the 19th century's "innovations" created vast misery then, and war for 50 years 50 years later, before we adjusted. For those of us (un)lucky enough to be alive today, the immediate future seems very bleak indeed. Thanks to thinking machines.
- sliverstorm 11y ago
  Well, first of all painful adjustment in the immediate future is worth the permanent advancement after the adjustment. Second of all I feel we have every reason to believe advancements like this are inexorable, so I would rather devote my thoughts to how best to handle them rather than how to stop them or to lament how unfortunate it is. I would also argue that the greatest skill humanity possess is not dexterity, pattern matching, or anything else like that. But, rather, adapting.
  - vegabook 11y ago
    The inevitability assumption. Not borne out by history. There are very long periods of regression if you look at the century-level scale, and it is not unreasonable to contemplate the potential that we might be getting towards "peak tech", right, now. Will technology move upwards? Most likely. Will technology move in an uninterrupted straight line upwards? most unlikely.

vacri 11y ago

If we get enough of this kind of technology, then Basic Income might become a reality, through sheer political necessity.