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Nothing like an "apology" that doesn't apologize for the real wrongdoing. How I love corporate speak. "Our relationship with developers got confusing, unpredi

Nothing like an "apology" that doesn't apologize for the real wrongdoing. How I love corporate speak. "Our relationship with developers got confusing, unpredictable. We want to come to you today and apologize for the confusion." Yeah it was the "confusion" that was wrong. Nothing like apologizing but not admitting fault either. He's basically saying "we did the right thing, we just didn't communicate it clearly."

aikah 11y ago
You're absolutely right. they should have said "We apologize for the kind of relationship we developed with IT businesses building on top of Twitter". Because this apology is basically "We apologize if we hurt someone but we're not going to change our policies, merely fire the guy in charge".
bloaf 11y ago
"From now on, when we hose developers, we will do so in an unambiguous and predictable manner."
- troels 11y ago
  And it will be predictable indeed.
  - TeMPOraL 11y ago
    "The cycle cannot be broken."
- BinaryIdiot 11y ago
  Honestly that would at least be an improvement
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- Alupis 11y ago
  Why does it seem it's only Twitter with this problem? (or at least the most frequent and public). Twitter "hoses" developers all the time who were making money based on apps supporting Twitter. They "hose" the developer because Twitter would rather make that money instead of allowing others to, yet they then fail to capitalize on the vacuum they just created. Over time, it's made Twitter a seemingly very unattractive platform to try to dev against. Twitter doesn't make much in terms of earnings on their own, it seems it would be in their best interest to allow an ecosystem around their platform.
  - stanleydrew 11y ago
    Facebook has also done this repeatedly, but most of their issues aren't arbitrary business decisions. They just make breaking changes to production APIs all the time.
    - Touche 11y ago
      > but most of their issues aren't arbitrary business decisions. Happens all the time. App.net was original an "app store" for facebook but they decided to make a competitor called App Center or something and told App.net they could either be acquired or shut down.
    - Alupis 11y ago
      > Facebook has also done this repeatedly ... They just make breaking changes to production APIs all the time. They do, but that doesn't slam the door shut on a developer/business purely for the sake of slamming the door shut on a developer/business. From what I've seen, Facebook encourages API usage. Twitter encourages it until you make money, then they shut you down - often stating they're building a similar app/service and you'd be competing with them -- only then to never launch said app/service. Twitter as a platform isn't worth much (as evidenced by year after year of not turning profits). The value in Twitter is the data - but they are locking it away. Why not go the Google route and charge for API usage over a certain threshold. Twitter could stop caring what users do with the data, and make money as their ecosystem grows and becomes more successful.
shahryc 11y ago
lol, good point. what are the concrete steps they are taking to change?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- BinaryIdiot 11y ago
  > what are the concrete steps they are taking to change? Well, according to Jack, we tell him what the steps are by including hashtag #helloworld in our tweets to @twitter. So...yeah. https://twitter.com/jack/status/656885664525357056 https://twitter.com/jack/status/656885664525357056
  - MichaelGG 11y ago
    Yeah that came off very poorly and incredibly insincere. He can't promise immediate change but feels they will, in time? Fuck that. He could immediately undo the limitations if he wanted. "Thank you for holding. You call is very important to us."
    - s73v3r 11y ago
      And how would immediately undoing the limitations help Twitter profit? Remember, they have to make money in order to keep operating the service.
      - MichaelGG 11y ago
        Maybe it wouldn't. Maybe courting developers does not help them be profitable. But then they shouldn't pretend they want to do that.
  - jalfresi 11y ago
    Yeah, if you have to ask what you need to do to make something right, then you don't really know what it is you did wrong in the first place.
mindcrime 11y ago
How I love corporate speak. At least he didn't "blame the victim" and make like everything is the developers fault.
- novaleaf 11y ago
  He's saying the devs are confused, seems like passive blaming to me?
  - mattzito 11y ago
    I was in the audience for the keynote, the clear message was that twitter was confused about what their relationship to developers should be, and they're looking to fix that.
    - mbesto 11y ago
      With no specific actions to remediate? (from what I can tell?) Sounds like it's going to have the opposite effect then.
      - mattzito 11y ago
        Okay - I don't work for Twitter, I only care about twitter inasmuch as they're a big data source for my company. So I don't speak for Twitter. That being said, this event is a whole event focused around Twitter developers, and this was seriously just a 9 minute talk by the CEO about a general vision of Twitter, with a 60 second part of it about the "we screwed up" piece. I don't think it's an appropriate situation for a self-flagellation and introspection. Since then they've gone through and talked about new APIs, new toolkits, new data sources, all for developers. I get that they still want to control their platform and that is objectionable to some folks, but it's hard to argue that they're not doing anything with developers.
        mbesto 11y ago
        If I want to drive my car on a highway and the state department says "really sorry there's so many potholes, we were confused about how we communicated to how you should drive on them", I'm still sitting here wondering whether I should continue to drive on that road for my business or not. Now if they said "we screwed up, we're sorry. going forward we have a 5 point plan to help make sure you can drive on that road" I would feel much better about continuing to use that road for my business.
idoh 11y ago
Agreed, it is my least favorite apology. "I apologize that you didn't understand" is not really an apology.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
edoloughlin 11y ago
Yeah, I don't think anyone was ever confused about Twitter's relationship with developers, or thought that it was unpredictable.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
jsprogrammer 11y ago
Yep, and this comes on the heels of terminating relationships with hundreds of internal developers. It's difficult to understand what Twitter is even talking about.
austenallred 11y ago
Apology accepted, I’ll totally build my whole company around your platform now, since Twitter is so stable.

aikah 11y ago

You're absolutely right. they should have said "We apologize for the kind of relationship we developed with IT businesses building on top of Twitter". Because this apology is basically "We apologize if we hurt someone but we're not going to change our policies, merely fire the guy in charge".

bloaf 11y ago

"From now on, when we hose developers, we will do so in an unambiguous and predictable manner."

troels 11y ago
And it will be predictable indeed.
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  "The cycle cannot be broken."
BinaryIdiot 11y ago
Honestly that would at least be an improvement
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
Alupis 11y ago
Why does it seem it's only Twitter with this problem? (or at least the most frequent and public). Twitter "hoses" developers all the time who were making money based on apps supporting Twitter. They "hose" the developer because Twitter would rather make that money instead of allowing others to, yet they then fail to capitalize on the vacuum they just created. Over time, it's made Twitter a seemingly very unattractive platform to try to dev against. Twitter doesn't make much in terms of earnings on their own, it seems it would be in their best interest to allow an ecosystem around their platform.
- stanleydrew 11y ago
  Facebook has also done this repeatedly, but most of their issues aren't arbitrary business decisions. They just make breaking changes to production APIs all the time.
  - Touche 11y ago
    > but most of their issues aren't arbitrary business decisions. Happens all the time. App.net was original an "app store" for facebook but they decided to make a competitor called App Center or something and told App.net they could either be acquired or shut down.
  - Alupis 11y ago
    > Facebook has also done this repeatedly ... They just make breaking changes to production APIs all the time. They do, but that doesn't slam the door shut on a developer/business purely for the sake of slamming the door shut on a developer/business. From what I've seen, Facebook encourages API usage. Twitter encourages it until you make money, then they shut you down - often stating they're building a similar app/service and you'd be competing with them -- only then to never launch said app/service. Twitter as a platform isn't worth much (as evidenced by year after year of not turning profits). The value in Twitter is the data - but they are locking it away. Why not go the Google route and charge for API usage over a certain threshold. Twitter could stop caring what users do with the data, and make money as their ecosystem grows and becomes more successful.

shahryc 11y ago

lol, good point. what are the concrete steps they are taking to change?

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
BinaryIdiot 11y ago
> what are the concrete steps they are taking to change? Well, according to Jack, we tell him what the steps are by including hashtag #helloworld in our tweets to @twitter. So...yeah. https://twitter.com/jack/status/656885664525357056 https://twitter.com/jack/status/656885664525357056
- MichaelGG 11y ago
  Yeah that came off very poorly and incredibly insincere. He can't promise immediate change but feels they will, in time? Fuck that. He could immediately undo the limitations if he wanted. "Thank you for holding. You call is very important to us."
  - s73v3r 11y ago
    And how would immediately undoing the limitations help Twitter profit? Remember, they have to make money in order to keep operating the service.
    - MichaelGG 11y ago
      Maybe it wouldn't. Maybe courting developers does not help them be profitable. But then they shouldn't pretend they want to do that.
- jalfresi 11y ago
  Yeah, if you have to ask what you need to do to make something right, then you don't really know what it is you did wrong in the first place.

mindcrime 11y ago

How I love corporate speak. At least he didn't "blame the victim" and make like everything is the developers fault.

novaleaf 11y ago
He's saying the devs are confused, seems like passive blaming to me?
- mattzito 11y ago
  I was in the audience for the keynote, the clear message was that twitter was confused about what their relationship to developers should be, and they're looking to fix that.
  - mbesto 11y ago
    With no specific actions to remediate? (from what I can tell?) Sounds like it's going to have the opposite effect then.
    - mattzito 11y ago
      Okay - I don't work for Twitter, I only care about twitter inasmuch as they're a big data source for my company. So I don't speak for Twitter. That being said, this event is a whole event focused around Twitter developers, and this was seriously just a 9 minute talk by the CEO about a general vision of Twitter, with a 60 second part of it about the "we screwed up" piece. I don't think it's an appropriate situation for a self-flagellation and introspection. Since then they've gone through and talked about new APIs, new toolkits, new data sources, all for developers. I get that they still want to control their platform and that is objectionable to some folks, but it's hard to argue that they're not doing anything with developers.
      - mbesto 11y ago
        If I want to drive my car on a highway and the state department says "really sorry there's so many potholes, we were confused about how we communicated to how you should drive on them", I'm still sitting here wondering whether I should continue to drive on that road for my business or not. Now if they said "we screwed up, we're sorry. going forward we have a 5 point plan to help make sure you can drive on that road" I would feel much better about continuing to use that road for my business.

idoh 11y ago

Agreed, it is my least favorite apology. "I apologize that you didn't understand" is not really an apology.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

edoloughlin 11y ago

Yeah, I don't think anyone was ever confused about Twitter's relationship with developers, or thought that it was unpredictable.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

jsprogrammer 11y ago

Yep, and this comes on the heels of terminating relationships with hundreds of internal developers. It's difficult to understand what Twitter is even talking about.

austenallred 11y ago

Apology accepted, I’ll totally build my whole company around your platform now, since Twitter is so stable.