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Compare the second part you say to the following: >IF I come and creep you out, stalk you, threaten harm to you and your family, maybe you should just change n

Compare the second part you say to the following: >IF I come and creep you out, stalk you, threaten harm to you and your family, maybe you should just change name and location, and go live in a different state. Pre-empting the 'but this is internet, just stop looking at it', argument: Essentially, how is it different from "if X group of people doesn't want to be harassed, they should just avoid their harassers, and not go to where they are". Replace the "X" with women, or persons of any race.

jbob2000 11y ago
I totally get where you're coming from, I don't like what I suggested either. But it is reality. We would be ignorant to say "Shouldn't people just stop harassing?". People won't stop harassing. You can educate and PSA the hell out of the issue. It will not stop. You can lessen it, but it won't stop; welcome to Humanity. Like I said, celebrities have been dealing with this for decades. It's only become an issue now because "commoners" are much more capable of reaching fame than ever before. Nobody shed any tears for the hundreds of actors and actresses who have been harassed over the years. "That's fame, deal with it" they said. >IF I come and creep you out, stalk you, threaten harm to you and your family, maybe you should just change name and location, and go live in a different state. I would alter that to say "maybe you should contact the police".
- benten10 11y ago
  Yupp. As many, including Brianna Wu, have done. Then what? The harasser could be a 21 year old man in Siberia, covering himself up with multiple layers of anonymity. I'm suggesting that the attackers will keep attacking until you leave the platform, or just shut up, and so they will have won. The means to police harassment is not yet where we expect it to be. Why should those that are being attacked be on the lookout? As many in this forum feel, if the governmental authorities shouldn't have the abilities to shut you up, why should randos on the internet? (I would argue they can, and often are both one and the same) Imagine suggesting to Cory Doctorow that he should work under a pseudonym because the British government doesn't like what he's saying. My argument is: what you're saying is equivalent to that.
  - jbob2000 11y ago
    I'm not going to pretend I have answer, but I'm just going to repeat what I said; that celebrities have been trying to solve this problem for a long time. They hire security, have security installed in their homes, etc. etc. Plugging our ears and saying "LALALA the bad guys need to stop being bad" won't solve anything. Because yes, people will hide behind proxies. You don't need to leave the platform. You don't need to move states. But you do need to do something. You can't just sit around waiting for someone to come to your rescue.
    - Mz 11y ago
      You know, the kinds of comments you have repeatedly made in this discussion helps create an atmosphere where creeps feel okay about doing shitty things and everyone looks the other way and says "Boys will be boys." I get that you think you are just being pragmatic, but since you do not have an actual solution to offer, the best thing you can do is at least not help promote an atmosphere where folks think it is normal and okay for men to behave this way. Choosing to not put out the fire with gasoline is a constructive choice if you have no real solution to offer. It at least burns slower that way.

jbob2000 11y ago

I totally get where you're coming from, I don't like what I suggested either. But it is reality. We would be ignorant to say "Shouldn't people just stop harassing?". People won't stop harassing. You can educate and PSA the hell out of the issue. It will not stop. You can lessen it, but it won't stop; welcome to Humanity. Like I said, celebrities have been dealing with this for decades. It's only become an issue now because "commoners" are much more capable of reaching fame than ever before. Nobody shed any tears for the hundreds of actors and actresses who have been harassed over the years. "That's fame, deal with it" they said. >IF I come and creep you out, stalk you, threaten harm to you and your family, maybe you should just change name and location, and go live in a different state. I would alter that to say "maybe you should contact the police".

benten10 11y ago
Yupp. As many, including Brianna Wu, have done. Then what? The harasser could be a 21 year old man in Siberia, covering himself up with multiple layers of anonymity. I'm suggesting that the attackers will keep attacking until you leave the platform, or just shut up, and so they will have won. The means to police harassment is not yet where we expect it to be. Why should those that are being attacked be on the lookout? As many in this forum feel, if the governmental authorities shouldn't have the abilities to shut you up, why should randos on the internet? (I would argue they can, and often are both one and the same) Imagine suggesting to Cory Doctorow that he should work under a pseudonym because the British government doesn't like what he's saying. My argument is: what you're saying is equivalent to that.
- jbob2000 11y ago
  I'm not going to pretend I have answer, but I'm just going to repeat what I said; that celebrities have been trying to solve this problem for a long time. They hire security, have security installed in their homes, etc. etc. Plugging our ears and saying "LALALA the bad guys need to stop being bad" won't solve anything. Because yes, people will hide behind proxies. You don't need to leave the platform. You don't need to move states. But you do need to do something. You can't just sit around waiting for someone to come to your rescue.
  - Mz 11y ago
    You know, the kinds of comments you have repeatedly made in this discussion helps create an atmosphere where creeps feel okay about doing shitty things and everyone looks the other way and says "Boys will be boys." I get that you think you are just being pragmatic, but since you do not have an actual solution to offer, the best thing you can do is at least not help promote an atmosphere where folks think it is normal and okay for men to behave this way. Choosing to not put out the fire with gasoline is a constructive choice if you have no real solution to offer. It at least burns slower that way.