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I've used (servers and laptops and desktops) Fedora and Ubuntu for many years. Since the advent of package management, Fedora has been significantly more "just

I've used (servers and laptops and desktops) Fedora and Ubuntu for many years. Since the advent of package management, Fedora has been significantly more "just works" when it comes to anything slightly professional or complicated (of course Ubuntu has had the edge on personal multimedia), and I'll bet this practice of discouraging bundling is a huge part of that. On the other hand, Fedora usage is falling, proportionally, right? I'm not sure, but it seems like it. Anyway: tough call.

rlpb 11y ago
> ...and I'll bet this practice of discouraging bundling is a huge part of that. Your bet would be wrong. Debian also discourages bundling[1], and so does Ubuntu[2]. The reason the policies look similar is that Ubuntu policy is derived from Debian policy. [1] https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html#s-embeddedfiles https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html#s-em... [2] http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/ubuntu-policy/policy.html/ch-source.html#s-embeddedfiles http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/ubuntu-policy/policy.h...
- eliaspro 11y ago
  Same in Gentoo: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Why_not_bundle_dependencies https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Why_not_bundle_dependencies
dijit 11y ago
Fedora usage is falling probably because many previous fedora users are a bit jaded with RedHat, the way systemd has been shimmed into everything- there's no benefit to using fedora over Arch linux anymore, you get more control and you don't have to fight the system to get anything technical done. Or, they went to the UNICEs, which is what I did. (this is anecdotal, I only know a dozen or so fedora users and they all jumped ship recently because they felt the offering is sub-par now)
- sevensor 11y ago
  Anecdotally, I switched from Fedora to Arch for personal use because I was tired of my system breaking every 6 months. Two years on, and I've spent a great deal less time on system administration than I would have if I'd stayed with Fedora. Once you get past installing Arch for the very first time, it gets really easy.
- andor 11y ago
  Fedora usage is falling probably because many previous fedora users are a bit jaded with RedHat, the way systemd has been shimmed into everything Or you could appreciate that Red Hat funds so many great projects and cares about the future of Linux. there's no benefit to using fedora over Arch linux anymore Fedora Workstation is easy to install and has a usable default desktop. No need to tinker with the OS, you can be productive very quickly. Last time I checked, Arch didn't even have an installer.
  - dijit 11y ago
    what use is an installer when your OS never breaks? the only reason I'm so familiar with anaconda is that my system would break in random weird and inexplicable ways on occasion.
lisivka 11y ago
Fedora usage is failing because they discourage packagers, so it is hard to add new packages to Fedora, so when user needs a package it will look for an other distro.

rlpb 11y ago

> ...and I'll bet this practice of discouraging bundling is a huge part of that. Your bet would be wrong. Debian also discourages bundling[1], and so does Ubuntu[2]. The reason the policies look similar is that Ubuntu policy is derived from Debian policy. [1] https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html#s-embeddedfiles https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html#s-em... [2] http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/ubuntu-policy/policy.html/ch-source.html#s-embeddedfiles http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/ubuntu-policy/policy.h...

eliaspro 11y ago
Same in Gentoo: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Why_not_bundle_dependencies https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Why_not_bundle_dependencies

dijit 11y ago

Fedora usage is falling probably because many previous fedora users are a bit jaded with RedHat, the way systemd has been shimmed into everything- there's no benefit to using fedora over Arch linux anymore, you get more control and you don't have to fight the system to get anything technical done. Or, they went to the UNICEs, which is what I did. (this is anecdotal, I only know a dozen or so fedora users and they all jumped ship recently because they felt the offering is sub-par now)

sevensor 11y ago
Anecdotally, I switched from Fedora to Arch for personal use because I was tired of my system breaking every 6 months. Two years on, and I've spent a great deal less time on system administration than I would have if I'd stayed with Fedora. Once you get past installing Arch for the very first time, it gets really easy.
andor 11y ago
Fedora usage is falling probably because many previous fedora users are a bit jaded with RedHat, the way systemd has been shimmed into everything Or you could appreciate that Red Hat funds so many great projects and cares about the future of Linux. there's no benefit to using fedora over Arch linux anymore Fedora Workstation is easy to install and has a usable default desktop. No need to tinker with the OS, you can be productive very quickly. Last time I checked, Arch didn't even have an installer.
- dijit 11y ago
  what use is an installer when your OS never breaks? the only reason I'm so familiar with anaconda is that my system would break in random weird and inexplicable ways on occasion.

lisivka 11y ago

Fedora usage is failing because they discourage packagers, so it is hard to add new packages to Fedora, so when user needs a package it will look for an other distro.