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>Not all of Europe is part of the Five Eyes, or even it's outer orbits. Five Eyes is only one such intelligence alliance. Germany, for instance, cooperated wit

>Not all of Europe is part of the Five Eyes, or even it's outer orbits. Five Eyes is only one such intelligence alliance. Germany, for instance, cooperated with the NSA despite not being part of FVEY: http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/german-intelligence-agencies-used-nsa-spying-program-a-912173.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/german-intellige... The Dutch, again not part of Five Eyes, tapped phone calls to pass to the US. We don't know the full extent of which nations played a role. I'm willing to bet it's more than have so far been revealed. >They don't have first-party access to US government communications, never mind, say, POTUS's cell phone. Germany wasn't exactly giving the US access to their government's communications either, "just" private citizens. They did assist the US in getting access to the French leadership, though. >"They all do it" is meaningless if one nation has an NSA and Greece has a sketchy looking guy with black shoes and no socks and a tape recorder. When the large European nations are aggressively spying on their own citizens and then passing that info around to foreign governments in exchange for special software or information, it sort of renders their complaints about the NSA kind of moot. Yeah, the NSA spied on your citizens, but you helped them. For those nations that didn't engage in this, I have a feeling not having your data in America isn't going to prevent the NSA from getting it if they desire it. Especially since much of that data will end up in the sorts of European nations that are spying on their citizens and trading data with the NSA anyways.

biafra 11y ago
> Yeah, the NSA spied on your citizens, but you helped them. I did not help them. Either the German government did or the BND and VS did without orders from the German government. This needs to be investigated and punished accordingly. That is very unlikely, but at least we have parliamentary commision (NSA Untersuchungsausschuss, NSAUA) to investigate these wrongdoings. Some interesting things were already uncovered by the NSAUA.
- JoBrad 11y ago
  Well, I (a person) didn't directly help the NSA, either. I didn't vote for the people who did it, either. But "I" (a citizen of the United States) did help them in that I am part of the US, and I generally support the form of government that we have. I doubt that the BND acted without orders from the Chancellor's office, just as the NSA didn't and hasn't acted without orders from the President.

biafra 11y ago

> Yeah, the NSA spied on your citizens, but you helped them. I did not help them. Either the German government did or the BND and VS did without orders from the German government. This needs to be investigated and punished accordingly. That is very unlikely, but at least we have parliamentary commision (NSA Untersuchungsausschuss, NSAUA) to investigate these wrongdoings. Some interesting things were already uncovered by the NSAUA.

JoBrad 11y ago
Well, I (a person) didn't directly help the NSA, either. I didn't vote for the people who did it, either. But "I" (a citizen of the United States) did help them in that I am part of the US, and I generally support the form of government that we have. I doubt that the BND acted without orders from the Chancellor's office, just as the NSA didn't and hasn't acted without orders from the President.