4 ms·

I just don't think many people realize just how much legal corporate and government "business" is created by the insane war on drugs, and I am convinced this is

by cubano 11y ago

I just don't think many people realize just how much legal corporate and government "business" is created by the insane war on drugs, and I am convinced this is the reason why it continues. Like I mentioned before, I just spent 6 months in the deep bowels of the criminal justice system for drug possession here in Florida, and those observations have shaped this view. The cops, the judges, the lawyers on both sides (who eventually become the politicians that make the laws), the clerks, the guards (do they hate being called that!), the jail/prison administrators...they ALL are making pretty awesome livings from the war on drugs, and have zero repeat ZERO incentive to change anything. The problem is not a legal one, it's economic. The public is fed the propaganda of wrecked lives and violence to keep the status quo...until the population somehow wakes up and sees how the CJS is totally broken as perhaps even more corrupt then the drug game, I doubt anything can change.

planfaster 11y ago
This is so true. We have two very recent examples of this, first the US presence in Afghanistan and second the DEA having just left Bolivia. But the media dare not touch this level of analysis.
alsetmusic 11y ago
I watched someone get out of jury duty by articulating his view of the prison system as a for-profit enterprise a couple years ago. He spoke brilliantly and was immediately dismissed.
pizza234 11y ago
This is the thesis of the documentary "The House I Live In", which is a suggested watch for anybody who has an interest in the subject[s].
rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
You are absolutely right, and perhaps the most under reported effect of the war on any vice is that vice enforcement becomes just as lucrative. It's easier to bust someone for possession than reckless driving, assault, you know, things that have to be verified at the time of offense. It's not that the police, prosecutors, prison owners or lawmakers are bad people, they just deal with corrosive incentives. Just like drugs, drug crime enforcement is a cheap high that gets you to places you wouldn't likely be if you played by the boring rules.
- user_0001 11y ago
  It is also very corrupting work (drug police). Of the handful of people I "know" who got busted, not one was charged with the full amount of drugs nor cash they were arrested with (when it was worthwhile amounts)
  - ethbro 11y ago
    This. When you're comparing a $100B business sector, that's a lot of available incentive to look the other way. A cursory search said ~$160B on local law enforcement expenditures (this also included fire). What do we expect to come out of that comparison?
will_brown 11y ago
A little more insight into Florida and street drugs vis-a-vis violence...In some places drugs dealers are sanctioned specifically to avoid an increase in violence. Example, in Miami, FL, there is Grand Avenue, a historic street that could define "other side of the tracks", whereas Grand Avenue is a street where drug dealers openly hustle corners, but the road itself leads into Coconut Grove (an economic center in the heart of Coral Gables - a city where Miami athletes/celebrities/politicians call home). In fact the police commonly refer to dealers on Grand, almost endearingly, as Alligators. Because they just sit out on the corners all day soaking up sun and scuttle away when necessary. Ask any Coral Gables cop why they don't "shut down" the dealing on Grand Avenue, the response is, well when dealers can't make money with drugs they arm themselves and follow the road into Coconut Grove to commit robberies. As a result there is an unspoken agreement, Grand Avenue is the dealers' so long as there is no spill over into Coconut Grove. When times are good, in many of the drug neighborhoods in Miami not just off Grand Avenue, it is often said rich white people are the safest people in these neighborhoods because they are protected customers. I am a criminal defense lawyer in South Florida, but its not exactly as you say, I don't have an interest in maintaining the laws as is. I assure you with different laws I wouldn't lose business, because there would be more lucrative work, namely legitimate business transactions (contracts, commercial leases, incorporation, etc...).
- nunyabuizness 11y ago
  Sounds like Hamsterdam from The Wire.
- cubano 11y ago
  Exactly. In Orlando, it's Paramour and/or Orange Blossom Trail. You hit the nail right on the head here..altho it's probably not just a Florida-thing and represents the utter hypocrisy and gamesmanship of the ridiculous war on drugs. EDIT: So I see now you are a criminal defense lawyer so that is very interesting...may I ask what percentage of your business is derived from defending non-violent drug offenders?
  - will_brown 11y ago
    Drug possession might comprise 10% of my caseload and 100% of mine are non-violent. However, about 75% of the possession cases I have include another criminal count (DUI; leaving the scene of an accident; suspended license; etc...).
grecy 11y ago
This is the problem with all the broken institutions in America today - too many people are cashing in big time, so they have no interest in changing the status quo. Healthcare, pharmaceuticals, education, Department of War, tax, minimum wage, environmental protections, unlimited campaign contributions (i.e buying politicians) ... the list goes on
Loque 11y ago
Further to this, imprisoning people who have drug problems does not solve the problem.

by cubano 11y ago

planfaster 11y ago

This is so true. We have two very recent examples of this, first the US presence in Afghanistan and second the DEA having just left Bolivia. But the media dare not touch this level of analysis.

alsetmusic 11y ago

I watched someone get out of jury duty by articulating his view of the prison system as a for-profit enterprise a couple years ago. He spoke brilliantly and was immediately dismissed.

pizza234 11y ago

This is the thesis of the documentary "The House I Live In", which is a suggested watch for anybody who has an interest in the subject[s].

rm_-rf_slash 11y ago

You are absolutely right, and perhaps the most under reported effect of the war on any vice is that vice enforcement becomes just as lucrative. It's easier to bust someone for possession than reckless driving, assault, you know, things that have to be verified at the time of offense. It's not that the police, prosecutors, prison owners or lawmakers are bad people, they just deal with corrosive incentives. Just like drugs, drug crime enforcement is a cheap high that gets you to places you wouldn't likely be if you played by the boring rules.

user_0001 11y ago
It is also very corrupting work (drug police). Of the handful of people I "know" who got busted, not one was charged with the full amount of drugs nor cash they were arrested with (when it was worthwhile amounts)
- ethbro 11y ago
  This. When you're comparing a $100B business sector, that's a lot of available incentive to look the other way. A cursory search said ~$160B on local law enforcement expenditures (this also included fire). What do we expect to come out of that comparison?

will_brown 11y ago

A little more insight into Florida and street drugs vis-a-vis violence...In some places drugs dealers are sanctioned specifically to avoid an increase in violence. Example, in Miami, FL, there is Grand Avenue, a historic street that could define "other side of the tracks", whereas Grand Avenue is a street where drug dealers openly hustle corners, but the road itself leads into Coconut Grove (an economic center in the heart of Coral Gables - a city where Miami athletes/celebrities/politicians call home). In fact the police commonly refer to dealers on Grand, almost endearingly, as Alligators. Because they just sit out on the corners all day soaking up sun and scuttle away when necessary. Ask any Coral Gables cop why they don't "shut down" the dealing on Grand Avenue, the response is, well when dealers can't make money with drugs they arm themselves and follow the road into Coconut Grove to commit robberies. As a result there is an unspoken agreement, Grand Avenue is the dealers' so long as there is no spill over into Coconut Grove. When times are good, in many of the drug neighborhoods in Miami not just off Grand Avenue, it is often said rich white people are the safest people in these neighborhoods because they are protected customers. I am a criminal defense lawyer in South Florida, but its not exactly as you say, I don't have an interest in maintaining the laws as is. I assure you with different laws I wouldn't lose business, because there would be more lucrative work, namely legitimate business transactions (contracts, commercial leases, incorporation, etc...).

nunyabuizness 11y ago
Sounds like Hamsterdam from The Wire.
cubano 11y ago
Exactly. In Orlando, it's Paramour and/or Orange Blossom Trail. You hit the nail right on the head here..altho it's probably not just a Florida-thing and represents the utter hypocrisy and gamesmanship of the ridiculous war on drugs. EDIT: So I see now you are a criminal defense lawyer so that is very interesting...may I ask what percentage of your business is derived from defending non-violent drug offenders?
- will_brown 11y ago
  Drug possession might comprise 10% of my caseload and 100% of mine are non-violent. However, about 75% of the possession cases I have include another criminal count (DUI; leaving the scene of an accident; suspended license; etc...).

grecy 11y ago

This is the problem with all the broken institutions in America today - too many people are cashing in big time, so they have no interest in changing the status quo. Healthcare, pharmaceuticals, education, Department of War, tax, minimum wage, environmental protections, unlimited campaign contributions (i.e buying politicians) ... the list goes on

Loque 11y ago

Further to this, imprisoning people who have drug problems does not solve the problem.