4 ms·

So they're going to go back to corn husk brooms? Where do they draw the line?

by rpledge 11y ago

TheCraiggers 11y ago
>Where do they draw the line? I'd say they just did. They're sticking with what they have now, and not using the newer, better technology. In most sports, there is an intersection of skill and technology. In order to keep things interesting, you typically want to increase the amount of skill required, and lower the amount of technology. However, there are times when that may sway one direction or the other- safety is an obvious exception to the above. There is no reason to insert fallacies; this is normal and has been going on as long as sports have existed. The only interesting thing here is that the top teams are taking a stand before the ruling body makes a declaration. That will still need to happen, but this will likely sway the decision made.
- igrekel 11y ago
  There is that plus the fact that they say it seriously affects the ice for subsequent shots. Curlers are a bit obsessive about the ice, but then again it plays a big role.
  - makomk 11y ago
    If I'm reading the article correctly, they say that a version of the technology produced as a demo by a competing curling broom manufacturer that doesn't want it in the sport seriously affected the ice for subsequent shots. I don't think anyone's had that problem with the icePad version, which is the one that's actually for sale.
- rpledge 11y ago
  My point about drawing a line is that it needs to be defined (i.e. you can't use a broom with coefficient of friction greater than X (for example, I claim not scientific basis on this)). Having top teams indicate they don't like a change is a good signal to the governing body that sets rules but other teams will use the technology if it is better. They can't just add a rule that says you can't use Brand X equipment - it has to declare limits on what the equipment is.
LargeWu 11y ago
Sports draw the line on equipment all the time. Professional baseball, for example, does not use aluminum bats. Pro golf has extensive lists of approved/disallowed equipment. The key here is that the professionals claim it fundamentally changes the game. Not only does it allegedly drastically change the dynamics of how the rock travels, it also allegedly takes most of the skill requirement out of shooting and puts it into sweeping. Not to mention it also supposedly causes significant harm to the playability of the ice surface, which is paramount in curling. Somebody posted a video on youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScelTWytLFQ&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScelTWytLFQ&feature=youtu.be) of a draw shot that the sweeper was able to manipulate the rock into traveling a straight line, while a rock a few feet over curled five feet. This sort of manipulation completely changes how the game is played, both physically as well as strategy. Now, I'm still not sure I believe all the claims, and the video leaves a lot of unanswered questions, and some claim it's just a smear campaign by BalancePlus against competitor Hardline. I don't know what to believe, and am reserving judgement until the evidence is more clear. BUT, if these brooms can in fact do everything people claim they can, I would be in favor of disallowing them.
- mudetroit 11y ago
  Having watched the video, and curled, to me it says little to nothing. Two stones thrown that far apart from one another can show wildly different amounts of curl. Every sheet has it's own characteristics, even across different pebblings things will change. Additionally, sweeping is supposed to make the stone go straighter, that;s the basic mechanics of the game. I think if they are going to look at putting some sort of rule in place then they need to look at it from something that can be strictly scientifically measured, like the rebound velocity of a golf club face, rather then something against a specific fabric type.
  - LargeWu 11y ago
    Well I agree the video doesn't prove anything. Would need to see a more controlled study. At minimum I would like to see what that line does without any sweeping. If you watch closely you can see the sweeping appears to cause the rock to change handles multiple times, which would explain the straight draw shot. I mean, I've played on some very straight ice before, but never that straight, unless there was a problem with the ice itself. Even the straightest ice moves a couple rock widths on a draw. There are some shenanigans going on, not necessarily with the brooms.

So they're going to go back to corn husk brooms? Where do they draw the line?

by rpledge 11y ago

So they're going to go back to corn husk brooms? Where do they draw the line?

>Where do they draw the line? I'd say they just did. They're sticking with what they have now, and not using the newer, better technology. In most sports, there is an intersection of skill and technology. In order to keep things interesting, you typically want to increase the amount of skill required, and lower the amount of technology. However, there are times when that may sway one direction or the other- safety is an obvious exception to the above. There is no reason to insert fallacies; this is normal and has been going on as long as sports have existed. The only interesting thing here is that the top teams are taking a stand before the ruling body makes a declaration. That will still need to happen, but this will likely sway the decision made.

igrekel 11y ago
There is that plus the fact that they say it seriously affects the ice for subsequent shots. Curlers are a bit obsessive about the ice, but then again it plays a big role.
- makomk 11y ago
  If I'm reading the article correctly, they say that a version of the technology produced as a demo by a competing curling broom manufacturer that doesn't want it in the sport seriously affected the ice for subsequent shots. I don't think anyone's had that problem with the icePad version, which is the one that's actually for sale.
rpledge 11y ago
My point about drawing a line is that it needs to be defined (i.e. you can't use a broom with coefficient of friction greater than X (for example, I claim not scientific basis on this)). Having top teams indicate they don't like a change is a good signal to the governing body that sets rules but other teams will use the technology if it is better. They can't just add a rule that says you can't use Brand X equipment - it has to declare limits on what the equipment is.

LargeWu 11y ago

Sports draw the line on equipment all the time. Professional baseball, for example, does not use aluminum bats. Pro golf has extensive lists of approved/disallowed equipment. The key here is that the professionals claim it fundamentally changes the game. Not only does it allegedly drastically change the dynamics of how the rock travels, it also allegedly takes most of the skill requirement out of shooting and puts it into sweeping. Not to mention it also supposedly causes significant harm to the playability of the ice surface, which is paramount in curling. Somebody posted a video on youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScelTWytLFQ&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScelTWytLFQ&feature=youtu.be) of a draw shot that the sweeper was able to manipulate the rock into traveling a straight line, while a rock a few feet over curled five feet. This sort of manipulation completely changes how the game is played, both physically as well as strategy. Now, I'm still not sure I believe all the claims, and the video leaves a lot of unanswered questions, and some claim it's just a smear campaign by BalancePlus against competitor Hardline. I don't know what to believe, and am reserving judgement until the evidence is more clear. BUT, if these brooms can in fact do everything people claim they can, I would be in favor of disallowing them.

mudetroit 11y ago
Having watched the video, and curled, to me it says little to nothing. Two stones thrown that far apart from one another can show wildly different amounts of curl. Every sheet has it's own characteristics, even across different pebblings things will change. Additionally, sweeping is supposed to make the stone go straighter, that;s the basic mechanics of the game. I think if they are going to look at putting some sort of rule in place then they need to look at it from something that can be strictly scientifically measured, like the rebound velocity of a golf club face, rather then something against a specific fabric type.
- LargeWu 11y ago
  Well I agree the video doesn't prove anything. Would need to see a more controlled study. At minimum I would like to see what that line does without any sweeping. If you watch closely you can see the sweeping appears to cause the rock to change handles multiple times, which would explain the straight draw shot. I mean, I've played on some very straight ice before, but never that straight, unless there was a problem with the ice itself. Even the straightest ice moves a couple rock widths on a draw. There are some shenanigans going on, not necessarily with the brooms.