4 ms·

You know I really wanted to believe in the new Microsoft ... then I started to notice the new telemetry patches in Windows update. They can say whatever they w

You know I really wanted to believe in the new Microsoft ... then I started to notice the new telemetry patches in Windows update. They can say whatever they want about privacy, as long as they sneakily collect data about my computer usage I won't believe a word of what they say.

jacquesm 11y ago
I try very hard to never use Microsoft products, that's for sure let there be no mis-understandings about that. So I can't comment on what the most recent incarnation of Windows does but I'm well aware that Skype did not change for the better after MS took over. Even so, saying this as not exactly a Microsoft fan (to put it very mildly) their words (not necessarily their deeds) are spot on, this is really what is needed and privacy really is a fundamental human right. Now if they will actually act on these words it will count for something.
- _lce0 11y ago
  > I try very hard to never use Microsoft products I also went ahead to not help anyone to install, fix, or do any type of support for such systems; instead I always have with me a usb drive ready to live-test linux, and to replace that ugly thing. Divulge, Replace, and Extinguish.
- randomhunt 11y ago
  > I'm well aware that Skype did not change for the better after MS took over While I'm acutely aware of the negative impact various changes had on privacy, cf the leaked documents referencing it, however I'm not sure that statement is blanketly true. I can now have Skype running on my phone where previously it used to drain the battery in a few hours flat. That is, personally, a huge improvement. Another thing I've noticed is I get both better video quality (when I use video, I prefer audio only) and I get less disconnects due to "network" reasons.
  - jacquesm 11y ago
    I meant that - in case the context did not make it abundantly clear - from a privacy perspective, not from a usability perspective.
- HelloNurse 11y ago
  Privacy of European computer users requires NSA vassal companies, e.g. Microsoft, to fuck off because they aren't reliable. Microsoft isn't going to magically become reliable only because it says it cares about privacy, nor because it actually defends the privacy of USA customers (which is remotely possible after all).
  - cwyers 11y ago
    Microsoft is currently in contempt of court because they're refusing to hand over data the US government wants. They're appealing. If Microsoft isn't reliable, then nobody is. And if that's the case, then it's not a problem with Microsoft, it's a problem with everybody, everywhere, that is within the reach of the US government. Which is everyone.
leppr 11y ago
I hope you realize a huge multi-billion dollar company such as Microsoft isn't one unified entity. Chances are the PR/politics guys never even talked to the team responsible for that telemetry update and have very different agendas. Furthermore, this kind of article is the last place where they would want to bullshit you, seeing how it is a prime target for their critics.
- jacquesm 11y ago
  If there is one challenge that Nadella is facing then it is that one: to get a single unified set of goals that Microsoft will strive to achieve. As long as 'the team responsible for the telemetry update' can screw up their long term prospects they're not looking good. Note how the GP writes "I really wanted to believe in the new Microsoft". And then some out-of-control arm of the company comes along and wrecks that (assuming it really is out-of-control rather than that it is a case of saying one thing and doing another).
  - ethbro 11y ago
    This is why having technical management (or at least technical-understanding) is key once you grow past a certain size, I think. There was a link here a few months back about some MS tiger team that upper management convened to solve a cross-department issue (something about a webpage in updates?). Additional department heads kept getting added to the call everytime someone said "It's not my issue, it's X's!" (ah, here's the link -- http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/files/library/2003Jangatesmoviemaker.pdf http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/files/library/2003Jangat...) I think that's what it takes nowadays: "I have the authority to make you and anyone else necessary resolve this" + "I recognize this is a problem" Too often it's one without the other. PS: Side tip. I think one great thing large organizations can do is have a more outside-the-org-chart independent problem solver. Problems get reported, they summarize the issue and get priority/sign-off from only above themselves, then they're empowered to pull who they need to fix it. Otherwise "that's an issue that only affects our users (aka not dev)" seems all too common.
- kardos 11y ago
  > I hope you realize a huge multi-billion dollar company such as Microsoft isn't one unified entity. Chances are the PR/politics guys never even talked to the team responsible for that telemetry update and have very different agendas. The article was not written by "some PR guy", the author is stated as "Brad Smith, the President and Chief Legal Officer". I don't think someone with that position would be blissfully unaware of the telemetry/spying issue. Actions speak louder than words.
mtgx 11y ago
Which reminds me, I assume now Microsoft can't collect most if not all of that data through Windows 10 from EU citizens? I just hope it won't use that "third-party trick", where it routes the data through another EU company first, because that would definitely be illegal under the recent ruling, too, but Microsoft may wrongfully believe it's "grey area", so it might just do that. If it does try to use that trick, and then later it's once again confirmed that what it's been doing is illegal, I hope it's sued for all its worth.
- jmnicolas 11y ago
  It's not only Windows 10 : the telemetry patches were backported for Windows 7 and Windows 8 too. Not long ago they were saying that Internet Explorer and DirectX could not be backported to previous Windows versions. I guess with the right incentives nothing is impossible ...

jacquesm 11y ago

I try very hard to never use Microsoft products, that's for sure let there be no mis-understandings about that. So I can't comment on what the most recent incarnation of Windows does but I'm well aware that Skype did not change for the better after MS took over. Even so, saying this as not exactly a Microsoft fan (to put it very mildly) their words (not necessarily their deeds) are spot on, this is really what is needed and privacy really is a fundamental human right. Now if they will actually act on these words it will count for something.

_lce0 11y ago
> I try very hard to never use Microsoft products I also went ahead to not help anyone to install, fix, or do any type of support for such systems; instead I always have with me a usb drive ready to live-test linux, and to replace that ugly thing. Divulge, Replace, and Extinguish.
randomhunt 11y ago
> I'm well aware that Skype did not change for the better after MS took over While I'm acutely aware of the negative impact various changes had on privacy, cf the leaked documents referencing it, however I'm not sure that statement is blanketly true. I can now have Skype running on my phone where previously it used to drain the battery in a few hours flat. That is, personally, a huge improvement. Another thing I've noticed is I get both better video quality (when I use video, I prefer audio only) and I get less disconnects due to "network" reasons.
- jacquesm 11y ago
  I meant that - in case the context did not make it abundantly clear - from a privacy perspective, not from a usability perspective.
HelloNurse 11y ago
Privacy of European computer users requires NSA vassal companies, e.g. Microsoft, to fuck off because they aren't reliable. Microsoft isn't going to magically become reliable only because it says it cares about privacy, nor because it actually defends the privacy of USA customers (which is remotely possible after all).
- cwyers 11y ago
  Microsoft is currently in contempt of court because they're refusing to hand over data the US government wants. They're appealing. If Microsoft isn't reliable, then nobody is. And if that's the case, then it's not a problem with Microsoft, it's a problem with everybody, everywhere, that is within the reach of the US government. Which is everyone.

leppr 11y ago

I hope you realize a huge multi-billion dollar company such as Microsoft isn't one unified entity. Chances are the PR/politics guys never even talked to the team responsible for that telemetry update and have very different agendas. Furthermore, this kind of article is the last place where they would want to bullshit you, seeing how it is a prime target for their critics.

jacquesm 11y ago
If there is one challenge that Nadella is facing then it is that one: to get a single unified set of goals that Microsoft will strive to achieve. As long as 'the team responsible for the telemetry update' can screw up their long term prospects they're not looking good. Note how the GP writes "I really wanted to believe in the new Microsoft". And then some out-of-control arm of the company comes along and wrecks that (assuming it really is out-of-control rather than that it is a case of saying one thing and doing another).
- ethbro 11y ago
  This is why having technical management (or at least technical-understanding) is key once you grow past a certain size, I think. There was a link here a few months back about some MS tiger team that upper management convened to solve a cross-department issue (something about a webpage in updates?). Additional department heads kept getting added to the call everytime someone said "It's not my issue, it's X's!" (ah, here's the link -- http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/files/library/2003Jangatesmoviemaker.pdf http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/files/library/2003Jangat...) I think that's what it takes nowadays: "I have the authority to make you and anyone else necessary resolve this" + "I recognize this is a problem" Too often it's one without the other. PS: Side tip. I think one great thing large organizations can do is have a more outside-the-org-chart independent problem solver. Problems get reported, they summarize the issue and get priority/sign-off from only above themselves, then they're empowered to pull who they need to fix it. Otherwise "that's an issue that only affects our users (aka not dev)" seems all too common.
kardos 11y ago
> I hope you realize a huge multi-billion dollar company such as Microsoft isn't one unified entity. Chances are the PR/politics guys never even talked to the team responsible for that telemetry update and have very different agendas. The article was not written by "some PR guy", the author is stated as "Brad Smith, the President and Chief Legal Officer". I don't think someone with that position would be blissfully unaware of the telemetry/spying issue. Actions speak louder than words.

mtgx 11y ago

Which reminds me, I assume now Microsoft can't collect most if not all of that data through Windows 10 from EU citizens? I just hope it won't use that "third-party trick", where it routes the data through another EU company first, because that would definitely be illegal under the recent ruling, too, but Microsoft may wrongfully believe it's "grey area", so it might just do that. If it does try to use that trick, and then later it's once again confirmed that what it's been doing is illegal, I hope it's sued for all its worth.

jmnicolas 11y ago
It's not only Windows 10 : the telemetry patches were backported for Windows 7 and Windows 8 too. Not long ago they were saying that Internet Explorer and DirectX could not be backported to previous Windows versions. I guess with the right incentives nothing is impossible ...