7 ms·

Last week linguists issued Elsevier an ultimatum, demanding fair open access for the journal Lingua [0,1]: > We asked for the following: 1) The journal is tran

by ar-jan 11y ago

Last week linguists issued Elsevier an ultimatum, demanding fair open access for the journal Lingua [0,1]: > We asked for the following: 1) The journal is transferred to full Open Access status, 2) Article Processing Charges (APCs) cost 400 euros, 3) The copyright of articles remains with the authors, 4) The journal henceforth operates under a cc-by licence, 5) Ownership of the journal is transferred to the collective of editors at no cost. We define these conditions as Fair Open Access. > Should Elsevier not accept our conditions, we will be forced to set up a new linguistics journal elsewhere. Now it looks like Elsevier is not going to cooperate, so there's hoping that linguists will now show solidarity and refuse to take on editorial roles with Elsevier [2]. The Association of Dutch Universities is also negotiating open access conditions with various publishers. Interesting times! [0] https://www.facebook.com/johan.rooryck/posts/773059302822316 https://www.facebook.com/johan.rooryck/posts/773059302822316 [1] http://www.lingoa.eu/about/aims/ http://www.lingoa.eu/about/aims/ [2] https://www.facebook.com/marc.vanoostendorp/posts/10206238868224893 https://www.facebook.com/marc.vanoostendorp/posts/1020623886...

ultramancool 11y ago
Wow, that's very impressive. I hope other journals will follow suit.
- masklinn 11y ago
  It's not the first time it happened, the entire editorial board of Topology[0] resigned and went on to create the Journal of Topology back in 2006~2007, and over way less than the Lingua demands: Topology's editor just wanted better (lower) pricing policies. Same story for the Journal of Logic Programming (in 2000), the Journal of Algorithms (in 2003) or the International Journal of Solids and Structures (in 2005). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topology_(journal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topology_(journal) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journal_of_Topology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journal_of_Topology
  - a_e_k 11y ago
    In my field, graphics, this happened with the Journal of Graphics Tools. The editors founded the Journal of Computer Graphics Techniques in 2012. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journal_of_Graphics_Tools https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journal_of_Graphics_Tools [1] http://casual-effects.blogspot.com/2012/07/the-journal-of-computer-graphics.html http://casual-effects.blogspot.com/2012/07/the-journal-of-co... [2] http://jcgt.org/ http://jcgt.org/
refurb 11y ago
Now it looks like Elsevier is not going to cooperate Are we really surprised? How would you feel if some of your customers demanded you turn your business over to them for zero compensation? I wish the linguists all the luck in the world starting their new, open-access journal.
- RobertKerans 11y ago
  Sure, you'd be peeved, but if the businesses in question is parasitic it's extremely difficult to raise even a modicum of sympathy
  - refurb 11y ago
    Why is it parasitic again? These journals are providing a service. You may not agree with the cost of that service and are free (both authors and reader) to get that service somewhere else.
    - masklinn 11y ago
      > These journals are providing a service. The journals provide a service, but Elsevier is a rent-seeking entity, it buys up/takes over publications and hikes up prices. http://imechanica.org/node/1531#comment-3251 http://imechanica.org/node/1531#comment-3251 estimates that the International Journal of Solids and Structures cost about $0.5m/year to run and had revenues of about $3.5m, or a net profit of $3m going to Elsevier for owning the journal and little else.
      - CWuestefeld 11y ago
        Earning profits is good for society. It demonstrates that the seller is providing a needed product. And it triggers others to innovate, to find ways to provide that product too, and get in on the racket. This innovation then drives down costs. And that's exactly what you see happening here. The linguists are saying that they'll be able to provide the product for a lesser price, but being nice and offering to let Elsevier continue to compete. If Elsevier refuses, and the linguists go ahead and start their own journal, then the free market has triumphed.
bitwize 11y ago
Elsevier are the scum of the earth. They're the ones who set up vanity journals on Merck's behalf so they could pass off ad copy for Vioxx as "published research" and get it to market.

by ar-jan 11y ago

ultramancool 11y ago

Wow, that's very impressive. I hope other journals will follow suit.

masklinn 11y ago
It's not the first time it happened, the entire editorial board of Topology[0] resigned and went on to create the Journal of Topology back in 2006~2007, and over way less than the Lingua demands: Topology's editor just wanted better (lower) pricing policies. Same story for the Journal of Logic Programming (in 2000), the Journal of Algorithms (in 2003) or the International Journal of Solids and Structures (in 2005). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topology_(journal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topology_(journal) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journal_of_Topology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journal_of_Topology
- a_e_k 11y ago
  In my field, graphics, this happened with the Journal of Graphics Tools. The editors founded the Journal of Computer Graphics Techniques in 2012. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journal_of_Graphics_Tools https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journal_of_Graphics_Tools [1] http://casual-effects.blogspot.com/2012/07/the-journal-of-computer-graphics.html http://casual-effects.blogspot.com/2012/07/the-journal-of-co... [2] http://jcgt.org/ http://jcgt.org/

refurb 11y ago

Now it looks like Elsevier is not going to cooperate Are we really surprised? How would you feel if some of your customers demanded you turn your business over to them for zero compensation? I wish the linguists all the luck in the world starting their new, open-access journal.

RobertKerans 11y ago
Sure, you'd be peeved, but if the businesses in question is parasitic it's extremely difficult to raise even a modicum of sympathy
- refurb 11y ago
  Why is it parasitic again? These journals are providing a service. You may not agree with the cost of that service and are free (both authors and reader) to get that service somewhere else.
  - masklinn 11y ago
    > These journals are providing a service. The journals provide a service, but Elsevier is a rent-seeking entity, it buys up/takes over publications and hikes up prices. http://imechanica.org/node/1531#comment-3251 http://imechanica.org/node/1531#comment-3251 estimates that the International Journal of Solids and Structures cost about $0.5m/year to run and had revenues of about $3.5m, or a net profit of $3m going to Elsevier for owning the journal and little else.
    - CWuestefeld 11y ago
      Earning profits is good for society. It demonstrates that the seller is providing a needed product. And it triggers others to innovate, to find ways to provide that product too, and get in on the racket. This innovation then drives down costs. And that's exactly what you see happening here. The linguists are saying that they'll be able to provide the product for a lesser price, but being nice and offering to let Elsevier continue to compete. If Elsevier refuses, and the linguists go ahead and start their own journal, then the free market has triumphed.

bitwize 11y ago

Elsevier are the scum of the earth. They're the ones who set up vanity journals on Merck's behalf so they could pass off ad copy for Vioxx as "published research" and get it to market.