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Actually no, TCP/IP/DNS is the backbone of the Internet and what made the Internet possible, HTTP was invented before Roy dropped his thesis. People like

Actually no, TCP/IP/DNS is the backbone of the Internet and what made the Internet possible, HTTP was invented before Roy dropped his thesis. People like to give Roy kudos for inventing the Internet ... Hi strawman[1], nice to see you again. I specifically stated that Fielding, Berners-Lee, and Frystyk were responsible for defining HTTP. A fact well documented by the aforementioned RFC-1945 reference. Since your reply was submitted by some form of HTTP client (a.k.a. "web browser"), by definition it used said protocol or the derivative "HTTPS" protocol to do so. This is further supported by you acknowledging the same: ... the thing that makes the web platform powerful is modern web browsers ... You see, these "modern web browsers" support a thing called "HTTP." And this "HTTP" thingie was defined by a handful of people (this sounds familiar). Regarding web client performance verses native apps, you state: Which Despite its primary focus and decade-long head-start it's still getting eaten by Native Mobile Apps ... This largely can be explained by bloated JavaScript-based SPA's[2] downloading megabytes of interpreted code. Want faster performing interaction? Don't stuff dozens of script references into a page which mandates the system to download them before being useful. How could this be done? One is called Code-on-Demand[3]. But for this to be viable, the system must recognize the server as being a first-class concern which collaborates with its clients instead of being a glorified data base connection pool. But if a person is myopically focused on what executes solely in the browser, this might elude them. > you'd prefer whatever Facebook tells you is better? No people should learn to think for themselves and use their experience to pick the best tool for the job ... Here's a point we agree upon. Nice to end it on a high note. 1 - http://www.asa3.org/ASA/education/think/strawman.htm http://www.asa3.org/ASA/education/think/strawman.htm 2 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-page_application https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-page_application 3 - http://restcookbook.com/Basics/codeondemand/ http://restcookbook.com/Basics/codeondemand/

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devtique 11y ago
Thanks but I don't need a misguided history lesson skewed to support your warped view of events attributing the creation of the Web to your lord and savior who you wish was sole entity responsible for the Internet but was instead created by the geniuses who built the ARPANET in 1969 which is what formed the technical foundation and what made the Internet possible. Your fixation of the HTTP protocol was invented by Tim Berners-Lee, on-his-own. The first version created in 1991 supported the most important GET Request method (http://www.w3.org/Protocols/HTTP/AsImplemented.html http://www.w3.org/Protocols/HTTP/AsImplemented.html). The first NCSA Mosaic browser and Netscape Navigator was shipped before RFC-1945 was published and long before the REST thesis was dropped in 2000. To this day browsers only have native FORM support for GET/POST - the antiquated verbs REST-afarains like to spend their days arguing about are inconsequential to the web as we know it, but of-course this doesn't stop people trying to amplify its importance by dragging it by association through the foundations of the Internet. The fact you glorify a simple text protocol as the magical thing that makes the web possible is indicative of the extent of your religious delusion to a single technology. Modern browsers are built on millions lines of code, only a fraction of that is spent processing HTTP. There's an immense array of technology responsible for processing each browser request (https://plus.google.com/+JeanBaptisteQueru/posts/dfydM2Cnepe https://plus.google.com/+JeanBaptisteQueru/posts/dfydM2Cnepe) - HTTP is the tiniest spec of what's required for users to view a web page. > This largely can be explained by bloated JavaScript-based SPA's[2] downloading megabytes of interpreted code. Those SPA's you scorn because they don't fall into your REST view is what's responsible for the most popular and useful Web Apps available today. Go ahead and try make versions of Gmail, Facebook, Google Maps, Google Docs / Office, etc with dumb clients and full page reloads on every request and see how well-received and enjoyable your unusable works of REST art is, ignored by users whose only concern is ability of the softwares function to meet their needs. Any fool can create simple a text protocol, any fool can create a dumb, server-driven client, any fool can document a code-on-demand solution. That isn't to say HTTP isn't a well-thought out and defined work, it is, just that every feature or objective can be solved independently. The world didn't have to wait for REST for this to be possible, and it shouldn't be the be-all and end-all where all innovation for something better delivering superior results ceases because its holy constraints are violated. Technology works by solving problems and meeting objectives/goals. Technology improves by iterating, reworking existing ideas and finding new ones to solve objectives better and is constantly improving by the collective intelligence of smart people constantly pushing the limits of what's possible every day - it doesn't need to be shackled by hindering every solution into 1 way of thinking. The only thing that matters is the end-result, everything else including the tools and technologies used to facilitate it, is secondary. Something developers devout to religious technologies refuse to comprehend, who will happily place their needs for religious compliance over-and-above the project and its customers.

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devtique 11y ago

Thanks but I don't need a misguided history lesson skewed to support your warped view of events attributing the creation of the Web to your lord and savior who you wish was sole entity responsible for the Internet but was instead created by the geniuses who built the ARPANET in 1969 which is what formed the technical foundation and what made the Internet possible. Your fixation of the HTTP protocol was invented by Tim Berners-Lee, on-his-own. The first version created in 1991 supported the most important GET Request method (http://www.w3.org/Protocols/HTTP/AsImplemented.html http://www.w3.org/Protocols/HTTP/AsImplemented.html). The first NCSA Mosaic browser and Netscape Navigator was shipped before RFC-1945 was published and long before the REST thesis was dropped in 2000. To this day browsers only have native FORM support for GET/POST - the antiquated verbs REST-afarains like to spend their days arguing about are inconsequential to the web as we know it, but of-course this doesn't stop people trying to amplify its importance by dragging it by association through the foundations of the Internet. The fact you glorify a simple text protocol as the magical thing that makes the web possible is indicative of the extent of your religious delusion to a single technology. Modern browsers are built on millions lines of code, only a fraction of that is spent processing HTTP. There's an immense array of technology responsible for processing each browser request (https://plus.google.com/+JeanBaptisteQueru/posts/dfydM2Cnepe https://plus.google.com/+JeanBaptisteQueru/posts/dfydM2Cnepe) - HTTP is the tiniest spec of what's required for users to view a web page. > This largely can be explained by bloated JavaScript-based SPA's[2] downloading megabytes of interpreted code. Those SPA's you scorn because they don't fall into your REST view is what's responsible for the most popular and useful Web Apps available today. Go ahead and try make versions of Gmail, Facebook, Google Maps, Google Docs / Office, etc with dumb clients and full page reloads on every request and see how well-received and enjoyable your unusable works of REST art is, ignored by users whose only concern is ability of the softwares function to meet their needs. Any fool can create simple a text protocol, any fool can create a dumb, server-driven client, any fool can document a code-on-demand solution. That isn't to say HTTP isn't a well-thought out and defined work, it is, just that every feature or objective can be solved independently. The world didn't have to wait for REST for this to be possible, and it shouldn't be the be-all and end-all where all innovation for something better delivering superior results ceases because its holy constraints are violated. Technology works by solving problems and meeting objectives/goals. Technology improves by iterating, reworking existing ideas and finding new ones to solve objectives better and is constantly improving by the collective intelligence of smart people constantly pushing the limits of what's possible every day - it doesn't need to be shackled by hindering every solution into 1 way of thinking. The only thing that matters is the end-result, everything else including the tools and technologies used to facilitate it, is secondary. Something developers devout to religious technologies refuse to comprehend, who will happily place their needs for religious compliance over-and-above the project and its customers.