2 ms·

Exactly right. Stop sign is a simple rule to follow. You make full stop and then you go. yield is open to interpretation.

QuercusMax 11y ago
How is yield a fuzzy rule? It's simple: if nobody is in your way, then go. If they are, you need to wait till it's clear, then go. It's basically the same as a stop sign, except you aren't forced to artificially stop. In practice, many people treat stop signs as if they were yield signs ("rolling" or "california" stops). The real problem is when people treat yield signs like they just plain don't exist. Or when they treat them like a stop sign at freeway on-ramps.... but that's a whole other discussion.
- corin_ 11y ago
  I support this change - and am glad it became legal here in Paris a few months ago, since most people here already went through red lights - but it clearly is more subject to interpretation. If a vehicle is already in the junction as you speed through at 30mph on your bike and swerve to avoid the vehicle, you could argue "I got through so clearly there wasn't anything in my way so I didn't need to yield". In this example sure we can all agree the cyclist is in the wrong, but for every metre further away the car is, and the slower the bike is moving, the more reasonable the cyclist's argument to continue becomes. <Comment transitions here to personal anecdotal experience> Personally I'm pretty good at keeping an eye out for pedestrians, I always slow down for stop signs unless I have a literally unblocked view of everywhere somebody could step/drive out from (in 6 months living here and cycling at least once most days I've only fucked up once, and even then I was perfectly safe avoiding people, just possibly gave them a slight surprise to see me curving around them as they crossed - and that was completely a case of mea culpa, I fucked up). But many cyclists here are pretty terrible road users, even when not going through red lights. Then again, pedestrians here are just as bad - if I'm cycling near them I am constantly paying attention to where they are and whether they might step out in front of me, I've never known a city so full of people willing to walk backwards into a road without looking around first, it's astonishing. And drivers are even worse... and motorbikes are the worst yet. Seriously, it doesn't matter what vehicle / lack of vehicle you use in Paris, the majority of people seem to follow a "fuck everyone else, I'm the priority" mindset when it comes to getting around.

QuercusMax 11y ago

How is yield a fuzzy rule? It's simple: if nobody is in your way, then go. If they are, you need to wait till it's clear, then go. It's basically the same as a stop sign, except you aren't forced to artificially stop. In practice, many people treat stop signs as if they were yield signs ("rolling" or "california" stops). The real problem is when people treat yield signs like they just plain don't exist. Or when they treat them like a stop sign at freeway on-ramps.... but that's a whole other discussion.

corin_ 11y ago
I support this change - and am glad it became legal here in Paris a few months ago, since most people here already went through red lights - but it clearly is more subject to interpretation. If a vehicle is already in the junction as you speed through at 30mph on your bike and swerve to avoid the vehicle, you could argue "I got through so clearly there wasn't anything in my way so I didn't need to yield". In this example sure we can all agree the cyclist is in the wrong, but for every metre further away the car is, and the slower the bike is moving, the more reasonable the cyclist's argument to continue becomes. <Comment transitions here to personal anecdotal experience> Personally I'm pretty good at keeping an eye out for pedestrians, I always slow down for stop signs unless I have a literally unblocked view of everywhere somebody could step/drive out from (in 6 months living here and cycling at least once most days I've only fucked up once, and even then I was perfectly safe avoiding people, just possibly gave them a slight surprise to see me curving around them as they crossed - and that was completely a case of mea culpa, I fucked up). But many cyclists here are pretty terrible road users, even when not going through red lights. Then again, pedestrians here are just as bad - if I'm cycling near them I am constantly paying attention to where they are and whether they might step out in front of me, I've never known a city so full of people willing to walk backwards into a road without looking around first, it's astonishing. And drivers are even worse... and motorbikes are the worst yet. Seriously, it doesn't matter what vehicle / lack of vehicle you use in Paris, the majority of people seem to follow a "fuck everyone else, I'm the priority" mindset when it comes to getting around.