6 ms·

There's a bunch of disdain on both sides, huge amounts of rule-breaking, etc. People are people, people 'bend' rules toward their own gains. But the thing I wa

• Fomite 11y ago
  Along those same lines, cyclists should remember that they have both considerably more mass and velocity than the average unprotected pedestrian.
  • ajmurmann 11y ago
    Yes! As a driver I don't have very strong feelings about bicyclists, as a pedestrian I am terrified. It has happened very often that I had to jump out of the way of bicyclists that were running red traffic lights and stop signs.
    • thrownaway2424 11y ago
      A lot of people say these kinds of things, as if they are constantly dodging homicidal bicyclists, but the statistics of bicyclist-pedestrian violence show that it is quite rare, and not particularly violent when it does happen. If you had a choice, you'd be much better off with the world's most aggressive, negligent bicyclists than in a city full of average motorists.
      • grandalf 11y ago
        I've nearly been hit by cyclists going at least 30 miles per hour running through red lights. They careen past looking dazed. In many cases I've had to jump out of the way at the last second to avoid a collision.
        • ZeroGravitas 11y ago
          I've been actually hit by a car as a pedestrian. I believe the recorded statistics on injuries are very much in support of the comment you replied to.
        • thrownaway2424 11y ago
          OK, you were _nearly_ hit by someone on a bicycle, and you lived to tell everybody about it on the Internet. Meanwhile, 2.4 million Americans are injured in car collisions every year, and tens of thousands of them die.
          • thrownaway2424 11y ago
            I'll just leave this data here to back up my assertions for future readers. This, from Streetsblog today: "From 2000 to 2013 (the most recent year for which official bike crash data are available), cyclists killed eight New York City pedestrians, according to DOT. During that time frame, drivers killed 2,291 people walking. There were two reported incidents in which people on bikes struck and killed pedestrians in 2014, when DMV data show drivers killed 127 pedestrians. All told, cyclists fatally struck 10 people in NYC in 14 years, compared to 2,418 pedestrians killed by drivers, making cyclists accountable for .4 percent of pedestrian deaths."
            • grandalf 11y ago
              Considering that in NYC cars transport hundreds of thousands of times the number of people that bicycles do, the pedestrian death toll for bicycles per useful unit of transit is far higher than that of motor vehicles. And of course accidents will happen. I am referring to being nearly hit at high speed several times by cyclists who were blatantly disregarding the traffic signal. It's just needlessly reckless. Also, you have not addressed the issue of why someone who is allegedly healthy enough to cycle would be so lazy as to want to avoid having to stop at a signal and pedal to get up to speed again.
              • thrownaway2424 11y ago
    • noobermin 11y ago
      I go to one of the largest public universities in the US. I try to be a good biker (stopping at worst, true idaho stops at stop signs, full stops at red lights, of course). In between classes, when student pedestrian traffic is heavy on sidewalks many bikers dart and cut through the thick of people. It definitely is an annoying experience. I think I've witnessed only one accident however. While, as a biker on the road, I've experienced near death a number of times and being actually hit once, although not violently enough to case damage to me. So yes, there is a lot to be said about bikers from a pedestrian point of view and a lot to be said about cars from a bikers' point of view.
    • upofadown 11y ago
      That works great until such time at you jump towards the side the cyclist was intending to pass on. Then you might get hit. The proper thing to do when being approached by a cyclist is whatever you were doing up to that point. The cyclist can't read your mind. They can't compensate for every possible thing you might do. They know you are there and it will hurt them just as much as it will hurt you if there is a collision. They are not going to hit you on purpose.
      • grandalf 11y ago
        Judging by the extremely reckless behavior around cars that many cyclists engage in, I am not persuaded that they are conscious of their own safety or the safety of others. Additionally, many seem to be in some kind of trance while careening through red lights. There is a "walk" sign for pedestrians, and there is no way you can safely stop to avoid a collision. Also, if you don't have the strength to start and stop the bike safely, then there are other options such as a segway or motorized scooter.
        • usrusr 11y ago
          What those cyclists do is they are getting extremely good at predicting movement of cars and pedestrians and finding a collision-free path. Bikes (both motor and human powered) are generally much better at evading than at stopping. That "trance" is actually deep, but deliberately unfocused ("sense everything at once" instead of "focus on one thing at a time") concentration. Ignoring the obvious illegality, this would still be bad for mainly two reasons: #1 it all breaks down as soon as a pedestrian does something unpredictable (which he of course has every right to do) and #2 the external behavior gets imitated by people who don't actually have the skill (and who won't know they don't have it before they hit someone)
          • grandalf 11y ago
            I do appreciate that cycling is fun and that it's a great method of transport. The part I don't understand is why someone would feel the need to behave recklessly and go through red lights and put pedestrians at risk. It just seems like antisocial behavior.
    • grandalf 11y ago
      I've nearly been struck as a pedestrian by cyclists sailing through red lights in SF... It's so dangerous and reckless. There is no way the cyclists could have stopped or turned the bikes to avoid me. I walk at a decent clip and so depending on the intersection, no way the cyclist would have seen me in advance either. The part I don't understand is that if you are riding a bike and don't have the strength to start and stop the bike appropriately for traffic safety, then you shouldn't be riding a bike. Get a segway or a motorized wheelchair.
  • tomjakubowski 11y ago
    They don't really have much more mass. My bike plus me has about the same mass as a mildly overweight 6'0" man.
    • jrockway 11y ago
      I think he meant kinetic energy, not mass. (E=mc^2 of course but probably not what he means here.) A 180lb cyclist going at 20mph has the same kinetic energy as an 8000lb person walking 3mph.