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‘Clock kid’ Ahmed Mohamed and his family will move to Qatar
- jkrejci 11y agok
- cup 11y agoWatching this unfold outside of America was really a masterclass in how racism and discrimination continues to thrive in America. Which isn't to say It's unique to America, only from my experience a lot of Americans think their country has moved on from those days when in actual fact, racism is alive and kicking. The fact that you had news reporters and even Dawkins going after him was embarrassing and sad. When I was 14 I hung out with (Caucasian) kids that lit things on fire in the park.
- donatj 11y agoI feel like it had more to do with how controlling and oppressive our school system has become than race.
- TazeTSchnitzel 11y agoIt had very little to do with the school system. If the kid was white it wouldn't have happened.
- donatj 11y agoWhite children are arrested for stupid things all the time too. I went to highschool with a kid who got arrested for installing VNC server on a school computer.
- TazeTSchnitzel 11y agoOh for sure. But non-white kids are automatically viewed with greater suspicion/less likely to be believed.
- mindslight 11y agoBut the fundamental problem is that it shouldn't matter - you can't legislate away bigotry. In fact, attempting to do so just creates resentment which is passed to the next generation. You can legislate a sane school/legal environment that removes the arbitrary and capricious power from possible bigots, overreactors, and other adult bullies.
- lispit 11y agoThat's what really pissed me off about this charade. It would have been the perfect opportunity to talk about how fucked up our school administrations and their "zero tolerance" policies are, and instead everyone wasted their time rehashing the same old arguments about race that we have every day, that everyone has already made up their minds about.
- dragonwriter 11y ago> It would have been the perfect opportunity to talk about how fucked up our school administrations and their "zero tolerance" policies are, and instead everyone wasted their time rehashing the same old arguments about race that we have every day Actually, most of the early response from public critics -- and most of the major-actor outreach to counter the official sanction directed at the student -- seemed to focus largely on the lack of sensibility of the administration and it being a failure of authoritarianism stifling harmless youthful experimentation. There was some speculation about the official reaction potentially having racist motivation, but the issue becoming principally about racial and/or religious bigotry really kind of took off as defenders of the actions by the school (or those just wanting to bash Obama because politics) started arguing that the student must have been guilty of doing something wrong, even if it wasn't actually building a bomb, because of his families background.
- JackFr 11y agoThat's easy to say, but impossible to know. If the kid matches the right profile with the wrong teacher, there are plenty of scenarios where a white kid gets arrested for this.
- tedks 11y agoZero tolerance policies effect everyone. I'm sure if the kid was white he would be treated exactly the same. Now, it depends what kind of white kid, certainly. The captain of the football team? Probably a slap on the wrist. Anyone who wears black more than a day a month? Definitely getting arrested. According to the district documents, the policies for a "look-alike weapon" are the same as those for a weapon -- see: http://www.irvingisd.net/cms/lib010/TX01917973/Centricity/Domain/1454/Irving%20ISD%20Student%20Code%20of%20Conduct%202015-2106%20English.pdf http://www.irvingisd.net/cms/lib010/TX01917973/Centricity/Do... http://pol.tasb.org/Policy/Download/367?filename=FOD(LEGAL).pdf http://pol.tasb.org/Policy/Download/367?filename=FOD(LEGAL).... Zero-tolerance policies do disproportionally damage students of color (like many policies in most countries...) but they're perfectly capable of damaging white students as well, and it's almost certainly false to say that if a nerdy, technophillic white kid brought a strange device to a Texas school, he wouldn't be arrested for possessing a "look-alike" bomb.
- mangeletti 11y agoI was expelled from 7th grade (1996) for just holding a toy gun[1] (a friend brought it to school, but let me play with it, which lasted for about 5 minutes). The superintendent said they had a zero tolerance policy for guns and lookalikes after Columbine. My mother made an embarrassingly huge fuss about how overboard they were going, and ended up getting the expulsion overturned at a sort of appeal "hearing", which resulted in me missing just 3 days of school. It was a really stressful situation. I'm Caucasian. 1. Something like this: http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/orange-plastic-water-pistol-isolated-white-background-30308332.jpg http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/orange-plastic-water-pistol-i...
- mangeletti 11y agoNote: I brought this up to my mom and she pointed out that it was a shooting in Washington, not Columbine, that had the schools paranoid.
- rhino369 11y agoAmerica has been deeply suspicious of nerdy white boys since Columbine. That's not to say Muslim kids don't get discriminated against. My brother in law had a hard time in post 9/11 Virgina because he's Afghan.
- TazeTSchnitzel 11y agoAmerica is so obsessed with race that it boggles the mind any American would think racism is a non-issue.
- venomsnake 11y agoOn the global scale of the shitstorms that unfold - I have a feeling the whole world is burning, racism in the US is a foot note. What you have right now is the buzzfidization of the internet discourse - identity politics is easy traffic and money, so everyone is doing it.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- Karunamon 11y ago"Going after him?" AFAIK, all Dawkins said was that he didn't build a clock. Which he didn't, he took a circa 1980s Radio Shack clock out of its case and mounted it in a pencil box. Apparently trivially verifiable facts are discriminatory now? This whole thing stinks. I've seen nothing in either the police reports, the words of the involved people, or any hard, objective facts that indicate that this is a matter of anything other than garden variety school administrative stupidity.
- cup 11y agoWell the question is why an internationally recognized biologist with millions of followers though the need to wade into the controversy. Also you're forgetting the tweets where he called the kid a fraud, and insinuated he might have wanted to be arrested for the attention.
- mozumder 11y agoI don't get why Dawkins is so against case-modding? It's a valid design/art form.
- tedunangst 11y agoHow does one go from Dawkins said he didn't build a clock to "Dawkins is so against case-modding"?
- mozumder 11y agoBecause that's what he's criticizing - the fact that he didn't build the electronics, but only made a different case.
- GuiA 11y agoDawkins was being an ass for the sake of having the last word. Sure, nothing he did was impressive to the internet geniuses who have 10 years of experience and a college degree more than him. And so what? The kid was curious, that kind of initiative shouldn't be stifled. Because anyone who has worked with kids/teenagers in any capacity knows quite well how easy it is to kill that kind of thing in the bud. It takes a seed to grow a tree. I would absolutely say that Dawkins was in fact "going after him" and being an asshole, even if he probably didn't fully understand why (but that makes the whole situation even sadder, that a scientist so visible to the public would be clueless about how to engage kids about science and engineering).
- caminante 11y ago>Watching this unfold outside of America was really a masterclass in how racism and discrimination continues to thrive in America. Kids get suspended for less in schools, now -- racism or not. It's easier (and more likely) to explain these outcomes through hardened, zero-tolerance policies. >When I was 14 I hung out with (Caucasian) kids that lit things on fire in the park. And...I'm assuming you didn't get caught because you used discretion and weren't doing things in a controlled setting (e.g. classroom) or putting others at risk.
- dragonwriter 11y ago> It's easier (and more likely) to explain these outcomes through hardened, zero-tolerance policies. IME, zero-tolerance policies are highly-selectively enforced; they are quite convenient for administrators who want to act arbitrarily, because lack of action is less likely to be challenged if it doesn't lead to someone else getting injured, but any time action is taken (however flimsy the justification) the nest of zero-tolerance policies for (for drugs, including anything that could loosely be interpreted as associated with drug paraphernalia or drug culture; for weapons and violence, including anything that could loosely be interpreted as being suggestive of, related to, a simulation of, etc., a weapon or violent act; etc.) provide a convenient excuse for any response disproportionate to the substance of the act. Zero-tolerance policies aren't an alternative explanation to administrators acting arbitrarily including based on racial, religious, or other prejudiced animus, they are an enabling mechanism for that arbitrary action.
- Karunamon 11y agoWhich leaves us back where we started: Given that white kids are subjected to police involvement for unambiguous toy weapons all the time, what evidence is there that this has anything to do with prejudice?
- Karunamon 11y agoI hate to tell you this but that last bit doesn't have jack to do with race. I did things with fire and explosives when I was that age that would be grounds for prison time in the current oversensitive climate.
- larakerns 11y agoThis is a depressing consequence of media-fueled racism/discrimination that will further drive the disintegration of the US as a strong competitor in STEM fields on the global stage.
- TazeTSchnitzel 11y agoFor sure. If authorities treat Muslim people with such suspicion in the US, why would any talented Muslim engineers come over? Doesn't send a positive message to US kids either, does it?
- anon1mous 11y agoDon't be silly. Qatar won't overtake US. Neither will BRICS or Japan or Nigeria, etc. They lack innovative culture, disrespect for authority, etc. West Europe, the only real competitor, is almost forever bound to US.
- TallGuyShort 11y agoMuch of the online commentary I've seen of the aftermath seems to be along the lines of, "See? It was all a stunt!" I expect this will be met with, "See? He IS a terrorist!" Personally, I think the overreaction and resulting media storm have just ruined the kids life. Where can he go and be a normal, if perhaps unusually inclined to STEM, kid? Nowhere in the US, that's for sure.
- xlm1717 11y agoHe has met with leaders all around the world and gotten the attention of major tech companies. His life is nowhere close to ruined.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- huxley 11y agoHis father emigrated from Sudan, so not so unlikely that someone who is ethnically Sudanese might be invited to visit Sudan and meet the president.
- thieving_magpie 11y agoThere's no where in the US this kid can go and pursue an education in a STEM field? You really believe that? Good lord HN is a pool of overreaction.
- TallGuyShort 11y agoThere's a difference between pursuing an education and being treated normally socially. I mean "ruined his life" is an exaggeration, I'll admit, but it's pretty tough to get this much attention in a controversy and then just leave that all behind. A significant portion of my friends think he's a terrorist, for goodness sakes...
- thieving_magpie 11y ago
- zeteo 11y ago> Eyman was referring to a number of conspiracy theories that appeared on the Internet about his arrest. Most attest that the incident was a pre-planned plot [...]. Some of that skepticism stems from claims against Ahmed’s father [...] who has run for president of Sudan I was completely outraged when I first heard this story, but then I read some of the legitimate criticism that the article glosses over. Basically it looks like he didn't build a clock, but repackaged an existing clock into a pencil box and had it go off during class. Here's the take from someone who went the full length with looking up the parts: http://blogs.artvoice.com/techvoice/2015/09/17/reverse-engineering-ahmed-mohameds-clock-and-ourselves/ http://blogs.artvoice.com/techvoice/2015/09/17/reverse-engin...
- blakeyrat 11y agoI don't see how that changes the story at all. Whether or not he built the clock, the important thing is that he didn't build a bomb and was arrested by police officers who (then and now) fully admitted that he had committed no crime whatsoever.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- yelnatz 11y agoYea, but I can see through how much of a poser he is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFvB1I7uMGg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFvB1I7uMGg
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- zeteo 11y ago> the important thing is that he didn't build a bomb and was arrested by police officers He was arrested on suspicion of perpetrating a bomb hoax. There may be a legitimate purpose for putting an existing clock inside a box where it can't be seen, and having it go off during class. But I'm less outraged if it turns out that law enforcement's only failure was missing out on that legitimate purpose when called to make a judgment on the spot.
- akiselev 11y ago》After withdrawing from school in Texas, the boy’s family embraced the opportunities that came from his brush with the law. He visited the Google Science Fair, met with Sudan’s President Omar al Bashir, posed with the queen of Jordan at a United Nations Summit, appeared on the “Doctor Oz” show and last night, made it to the White House. Great for him and his family. I hope that he finds someone who kindles his curiosity and turns it into a force for human progress in the future. For those of us who remain in the United States: I think it's a sad state of affairs when "embracing opportunities" that result from horrendous discrimination in Texas means associating with a country best known for one of the worst genocides in recent memory (yes I know that the situation has changed in the last decade, but most people probably dont) and moving to a country widely known for effectively enslaving thousands for the sake of a sports tournament. [Edit] horrendous smartphone copy paste
- thieving_magpie 11y ago>For those of us who remain in the United States: I think it's a sad state of affairs when "embracing opportunities" that result from horrendous discrimination in Texas means associating with a country best known for one of the worst genocides in recent memory Yeah I'm sure the only option was to move to Oman. Come on, this is one of many opportunities offered and they decided to go to Oman. You're aware this kid just got his picture with al-Bashir - a man facing ICC charges for genocide in Darfur. I hope this kid's family has his best interests at heart.
- akiselev 11y agoIf you had spent most of your life integrating with Western culture, only to have your very identity targeted and put into the [inter]national spotlight, I wouldn't be surprised or disappointed if your first reaction was to go to the polar opposite (in this case, other nations whose government and population are heavily influenced by Islam). We're not even talking about basic discrimination but a situation where the victim was put on a stage many years before he could be prepared for it, if such a thing is even possible for an unwilling participant. Imagine the horror his parents went through when their child was subject to such an ordeal and it's hard to blame them for throwing their hands up and saying "fuck western nations", especially given the response of many European nations to the Syrian refugee crisis and the mass migration of Muslims to the EU overy recent decades. My comment was rather flippant because in reality he can have a much better life in poorer parts of the world where he is in the overwhelming majority (and educated) instead of in a nation where he is overwhelmingly a minority. Regardless, going from the United States, a country built on the idea of a cultural melting pot, to Qatar or Sudan makes me very sad.
- kraig911 11y agoThe only thing the clock this kid made is telling is that we're still in a time where racism and xenophobia is rampant still in America. The comments on that article are abhorrent. Even if it was pre-planned or not they definitely exposed the real problem we have in America. Not terrorists, but ourselves.
- aikah 11y agoFunny because in this very discussion > This kid stuck a Radio Shack clock in a pencil case, and deliberately disrupted a class with it after he was asked to put it away -- he plugged it into the wall and left it beeping until he was kick out of class and arrested for having a hoax bomb. > The only thing the clock this kid made is telling is that we're still in a time where racism and xenophobia is rampant still in America. Sure ,but is it about racism ? or is this about the media making stuff up ? Was he arrested because he was "brown" ? or because he behaved like a moron in class ? I don't have the answers, but let's choose our champions carefully here. The media often make up their own stories just for the sake of milking them ad nauseam. It wouldn't be the first time.
- kraig911 11y agoI think my point is there is no champion at all in this. Whether his story was true or he deliberately did it. In the end both scenarios playing out we as USA still lose. Only one scenario makes us look less bad but bad is still bad.
- ck2 11y agoGreat for him but I think it will suck for his sister and mom's freedom.
- Overtonwindow 11y agoLike others, I was at first really pissed off at this saga, but the more I've read, the more I feel like it's a hoax. This whole thing has just been one scam on the media.
- abritinthebay 11y agoSo the media were the ones that made the school and police over-react completely? Riiiight.
- _ak 11y agoDon't disturb the circlejerk! Of course it's all a premeditated ruse to gain media attention, Richard Dawkins thinks so, too!! /s
- Pinatubo 11y agoThe school and the police didn't over-react. The media simply glossed over what the kid actually did.
- abritinthebay 11y agoWhich was nothing illegal, wrong, or even against school rules. So yes, over-reacting is exactly what they did.
- Pinatubo 11y agoYou sound determined to believe this, so best of luck to you!
- bdcravens 11y agoNo, but the media has shaped the narrative to instruct the public as to what the intent was. If a kid brings a fake gun to school, they'd be arrested too (wrong or right)
- 11y ago
- JackFr 11y agoWhat's the story here? >He visited the Google Science Fair, met with Sudan’s President Omar al Bashir, posed with the queen of Jordan at a United Nations Summit, appeared on the “Doctor Oz” show and last night, made it to the White House. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_al-Bashir https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_al-Bashir In March 2009, al-Bashir became the first sitting president to be indicted by the International Criminal Court (ICC), for allegedly directing a campaign of mass killing, rape, and pillage against civilians in Darfur. In October 2005, al-Bashir's government negotiated an end to the Second Sudanese Civil War, leading to a referendum in the South, resulting in the separation of the south into the separate country of South Sudan. In the Darfur region, he oversaw the War in Darfur that has resulted in death tolls that are about 10,000 according to the Sudanese Government, but most sources suggest between 200,000 and 400,000.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- Pinatubo 11y agoHis father has run for president in Sudan and last made headlines for debating a Florida pastor who burned a Quran. This kid stuck a Radio Shack clock in a pencil case, and deliberately disrupted a class with it after he was asked to put it away -- he plugged it into the wall and left it beeping until he was kicked out of class and arrested for having a hoax bomb. This whole episode was engineered by a politically active family, who is now running off to Qatar with all the free publicity and stuff gullible Americans gave them. Al Jazeera is based in Qatar. Watch for the dad to appear on that network as a frequent commentator on anti-Islamic prejudice in America -- this was probably arranged weeks ago, possibly even before the hoax bomb incident.
- tedks 11y ago>Al Jazeera is based in Qatar. Watch for the dad to appear on that network as a frequent commentator on anti-Islamic prejudice in America -- this was probably arranged weeks ago, possibly even before the hoax bomb incident. Care to record this prediction on predictionbook.com or better yet, a betting site? Edit: Because it's interesting, and I think something like this deserves to be aggregated and quantified.
- GPGPU 11y agoI'm surprised that Obama stuck his nose in this. He really should let "local news" be local. Not everything has to be a federal case. And when I was 14, I was building real digital clocks out of 7400-series TTL chips. And so were many other nerdy kids back in 1976.
- dragonwriter 11y ago> I'm surprised that Obama stuck his nose in this. He really should let "local news" be local. It was already national news getting heavy coverage at the time. So, letting local news be local wasn't relevant to this case at that point.
- Mimick 11y ago>Al Jazeera is based in Qatar. Watch for the dad to appear on that network as a frequent commentator on anti-Islamic prejudice in America -- this was probably arranged weeks ago, possibly even before the hoax bomb incident. One of the biggest allies to US doing that? Can you not talk about things you know nothing about please?
- kzhahou 11y agoOne school+police district screws up, the entire nation up to the POTUS and numerous corporations extend their support... and his family then decides to leave the country?? Eh, fuck 'em. Seriously, he has huge opportunities here, both for himself and also as an advocate for other minorities in tech. This is a pretty bad insult to the USA, no way around that. Very ungrateful.
- seivan 11y agoI always assumed Scandinavians were the gullible dhimmis but quite refreshing to see how far Americans are willing to bend their reality distortion field to appease Islamists. The kid is innocent and was used as a pawn. The same can't be said for the impressive list of asshats that tried to capitalize on this as did the boy's jihadi dad and the Muslim Brotherhood - though you know them as CAIR. While everyone who brought up an ounce of critical thought was instantly dismissed as a "nazi" by the Good Guys™ And you wonder why people are growing increasingly right wing. Stop appeasing Islamists while throwing people like Nawaz and Khan under the buss
- sea2summit 11y agoIf you look up his father's history, it's pretty clear that this entire "controversy" was likely manufactured at the kid's expense.