4 ms·

Seeing as how the battery system is primarily what makes electric cars expensive, I really wish automakers would start delivering plugin hybrids that have, say

by derekp7 11y ago

Seeing as how the battery system is primarily what makes electric cars expensive, I really wish automakers would start delivering plugin hybrids that have, say 75 - 100 mile range on battery (to keep cost down), along with a very low horsepower gas engine. (Most plugin hybrids give you about 20 - 30 miles on battery). The way it would work: the battery would drive the front wheels, and you would use the battery for most of your driving -- but when it got down to 20% charge, the gas engine would kick in to power the back wheels. The battery could provide acceleration, and the gas engine (about 20HP?) would maintain highway speed (and trickle charge the battery when running off gas). That way, you are using electric for most of your daily driving, but won't get range anxiety.

JoeAltmaier 11y ago
Let's not go down that path again. All sorts of mutant variations have been designed/built. The successful hybrid is one that allows both gas and electric to contribute simultaneously on demand, so as to increase the maximum performance. While not impacting the efficiency of running on electric-only when that works.
Shivetya 11y ago
Chevy already has the Volt and the 2nd generation gets 50 to 53 miles EV and over 40 on gas afterward. The i3 is 70 to near 90 EV and similar in gas mode. Cadillac will have the CT6 which is a full sized car with the new Volt power train and expectations are high for it too. Yeah, i would like to see about half again more in base EV range, the cover the mistakes cover emergencies ev range we are not seeing now. The most important car coming in the next two years isn't from Tesla, it is again from Chevy and it will be the Bolt, they are promising 200 miles EV at less than 40k, possibly under 30k with tax incentives. They already are testing it with near production mules and claiming that 200 was easily done. Their battery costs are 145 or lower per kwh and expected to fall to 100 by 2020. Production is slated now for late 2016 having been moved up - not back.
proee 11y ago
This is exactly what the Chevy Volt offers.
weinzierl 11y ago
At least the BMW i3 with range extender is similar to what you described. Its range without the extender is 81 miles (EPA). The range extender is a two-cylinder gasoline engine from a motorcycle.
ZeroGravitas 11y ago
An internal combustion engine which purely charges the battery seems to be the way things will go in the future, like the current BMW i3 with optional "range extender". Though inertia will keep various other hybrid designs available in the near term.
- trhway 11y ago
  the issue is that current ICE range extenders in plugins are still those old ICEs originally designed to drive the wheels and thus there are inherent trade-offs decreasing efficiency. What you want is an ICE designed for efficiency. You can hit 50%+ efficiency if you design for it.
beamatronic 11y ago
In other words, you want the Chevy Volt.
kpwagner 11y ago
LOL. Genius. You should go make this perfect vehicle. Please make a post in five years to let us all know how that went for you.
6stringmerc 11y ago
As most of the responses will show, people aren't very fond of the idea. I like it, but replace internal combustion engine with a micro turbine and the opportunities for a "better" hybrid system are extensive.
- maxerickson 11y ago
  I think people are skeptical that the trade offs made in the Volt are bad. A heavier Volt with less available power might not perform comfortably.
cjensen 11y ago
Your suggested configuration has very big downsides. Basically, your config would be an electric car which carries around a complete internal combustion engine, gas tank, and exhaust system just in case it runs out of battery. For simple commutes and around town, you'd be better off jettisoning the weight and cost and getting a slightly bigger battery. The hybrid car as originally conceived is genius: Small and efficient gas engines are very gutless. Add an electric motor to fix the gutlessness and improve efficiency in stop-and-go circumstances. Electric cars are wonderful too. Trying to combine the benefits of all-electric with a hybrid is questionable.
- derekp7 11y ago
  That's why I mentioned a low HP engine, that would be just enough to maintain highway speed, to keep the weight small. Gas tank could be small, maybe 5 - 8 gallons.
  - cjensen 11y ago
    Now your low HP engine is lugging around a giant empty battery. :-) There may be trade offs to be had, but it seems to me that it's too easy to think "electric good" and not examine the tradeoffs carefully. I think that's why the original Prius did not have a plug-in option: it made no sense to people who analyzed the trade-offs. It was introduced simply because there was a market for "electric good". I think the right trade-off is either all electric, or small-battery hybrid. It also might make sense to have a five-mile battery for people who make a lot of sub-five mile trips, but still regularly go further.
- 6stringmerc 11y ago
  Do you have an opinion on the Jaguar C-X75 concept? http://www.theengineer.co.uk/in-depth/analysis/jet-power-bladons-microjets-enable-jaguar-turbine-hybrid/1005528.article http://www.theengineer.co.uk/in-depth/analysis/jet-power-bla...
  - tempestn 11y ago
    Wow, that looks really cool. Sadly it was going to be a million dollar car, and it was cancelled in 2012 after only 3 prototypes were built.
dragonwriter 11y ago
> Seeing as how the battery system is primarily what makes electric cars expensive, I really wish automakers would start delivering plugin hybrids that have, say 75 - 100 mile range on battery (to keep cost down), along with a very low horsepower gas engine. (Most plugin hybrids give you about 20 - 30 miles on battery). 20-30 gives you a decent commute on pure battery, anything longer is a questionable trade off of amount of battery you are lugging around, killing efficiency. > The way it would work: the battery would drive the front wheels, and you would use the battery for most of your driving -- but when it got down to 20% charge, the gas engine would kick in to power the back wheels. I don't know that a vehicle that switches from FWD to RWD while driving is a really good idea, or what advantage this mechanism has over more conventional and well-established hybrid systems.

by derekp7 11y ago

JoeAltmaier 11y ago

Let's not go down that path again. All sorts of mutant variations have been designed/built. The successful hybrid is one that allows both gas and electric to contribute simultaneously on demand, so as to increase the maximum performance. While not impacting the efficiency of running on electric-only when that works.

Shivetya 11y ago

Chevy already has the Volt and the 2nd generation gets 50 to 53 miles EV and over 40 on gas afterward. The i3 is 70 to near 90 EV and similar in gas mode. Cadillac will have the CT6 which is a full sized car with the new Volt power train and expectations are high for it too. Yeah, i would like to see about half again more in base EV range, the cover the mistakes cover emergencies ev range we are not seeing now. The most important car coming in the next two years isn't from Tesla, it is again from Chevy and it will be the Bolt, they are promising 200 miles EV at less than 40k, possibly under 30k with tax incentives. They already are testing it with near production mules and claiming that 200 was easily done. Their battery costs are 145 or lower per kwh and expected to fall to 100 by 2020. Production is slated now for late 2016 having been moved up - not back.

proee 11y ago

This is exactly what the Chevy Volt offers.

weinzierl 11y ago

At least the BMW i3 with range extender is similar to what you described. Its range without the extender is 81 miles (EPA). The range extender is a two-cylinder gasoline engine from a motorcycle.

ZeroGravitas 11y ago

An internal combustion engine which purely charges the battery seems to be the way things will go in the future, like the current BMW i3 with optional "range extender". Though inertia will keep various other hybrid designs available in the near term.

trhway 11y ago
the issue is that current ICE range extenders in plugins are still those old ICEs originally designed to drive the wheels and thus there are inherent trade-offs decreasing efficiency. What you want is an ICE designed for efficiency. You can hit 50%+ efficiency if you design for it.

beamatronic 11y ago

In other words, you want the Chevy Volt.

kpwagner 11y ago

LOL. Genius. You should go make this perfect vehicle. Please make a post in five years to let us all know how that went for you.

6stringmerc 11y ago

As most of the responses will show, people aren't very fond of the idea. I like it, but replace internal combustion engine with a micro turbine and the opportunities for a "better" hybrid system are extensive.

maxerickson 11y ago
I think people are skeptical that the trade offs made in the Volt are bad. A heavier Volt with less available power might not perform comfortably.

cjensen 11y ago

Your suggested configuration has very big downsides. Basically, your config would be an electric car which carries around a complete internal combustion engine, gas tank, and exhaust system just in case it runs out of battery. For simple commutes and around town, you'd be better off jettisoning the weight and cost and getting a slightly bigger battery. The hybrid car as originally conceived is genius: Small and efficient gas engines are very gutless. Add an electric motor to fix the gutlessness and improve efficiency in stop-and-go circumstances. Electric cars are wonderful too. Trying to combine the benefits of all-electric with a hybrid is questionable.

derekp7 11y ago
That's why I mentioned a low HP engine, that would be just enough to maintain highway speed, to keep the weight small. Gas tank could be small, maybe 5 - 8 gallons.
- cjensen 11y ago
  Now your low HP engine is lugging around a giant empty battery. :-) There may be trade offs to be had, but it seems to me that it's too easy to think "electric good" and not examine the tradeoffs carefully. I think that's why the original Prius did not have a plug-in option: it made no sense to people who analyzed the trade-offs. It was introduced simply because there was a market for "electric good". I think the right trade-off is either all electric, or small-battery hybrid. It also might make sense to have a five-mile battery for people who make a lot of sub-five mile trips, but still regularly go further.
6stringmerc 11y ago
Do you have an opinion on the Jaguar C-X75 concept? http://www.theengineer.co.uk/in-depth/analysis/jet-power-bladons-microjets-enable-jaguar-turbine-hybrid/1005528.article http://www.theengineer.co.uk/in-depth/analysis/jet-power-bla...
- tempestn 11y ago
  Wow, that looks really cool. Sadly it was going to be a million dollar car, and it was cancelled in 2012 after only 3 prototypes were built.

dragonwriter 11y ago

> Seeing as how the battery system is primarily what makes electric cars expensive, I really wish automakers would start delivering plugin hybrids that have, say 75 - 100 mile range on battery (to keep cost down), along with a very low horsepower gas engine. (Most plugin hybrids give you about 20 - 30 miles on battery). 20-30 gives you a decent commute on pure battery, anything longer is a questionable trade off of amount of battery you are lugging around, killing efficiency. > The way it would work: the battery would drive the front wheels, and you would use the battery for most of your driving -- but when it got down to 20% charge, the gas engine would kick in to power the back wheels. I don't know that a vehicle that switches from FWD to RWD while driving is a really good idea, or what advantage this mechanism has over more conventional and well-established hybrid systems.