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added to that most websites dictate how they will display their information to me Yet you say you miss native apps, which absolutely dictate everything about h

by untog 11y ago

added to that most websites dictate how they will display their information to me Yet you say you miss native apps, which absolutely dictate everything about how they work?

the_real_nfm 11y ago
A lot of native "apps" have either very flexible configuration, or some sort of scripting/plugin framework. Maybe not iTunes, but things like foobar2000 or conky.
- TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
  A few do. But most do not offer the incredible user presentation freedom the web does.
  - astine 11y ago
    In choosing between presentation freedom and a sane GUI programming model, I'd choose the later, especially given that the 'presentation freedom' is problematic when I want my desktop to have a common UI theme. Take into account that modern GUI toolkits actually provide presentation freedom similar to the web without having to do without native widgets, I don't see why anyone would prefer web GUIs from a programming perspective.
    - TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
      > modern GUI toolkits actually provide presentation freedom similar to the web They let you change colours, typefaces and shapes slightly. You could do that with Windows 1. That's not the same as what CSS allows (complete reconfiguration).
      - astine 11y ago
        http://docs.oracle.com/javafx/2/api/javafx/scene/doc-files/cssref.html http://docs.oracle.com/javafx/2/api/javafx/scene/doc-files/c...
dijit 11y ago
you're right! I live in the land of UNIX and commandline, I was not talking about GUI applications. But I see why you interpreted it that way, I apologise.
dredmorbius 11y ago
For native apps: * CLI tools present in my terminal's specified fonts and colours. Near total control. The main exceptions are ANSI escapes, and even those I can limit to black-and-white -- usually normal, bold, and reverse-video. * Most desktop apps integrate into some desktop enviornment (or environment(s)) for font size(s), colours, etc. OSX is actually something of an exception, which I realised when trying to see how I might set that up for a visually disabled friend. * Even where desktop apps don't have systemwide configuration tools, you're generally seeing the same toolkit (or limited set of toolkits) in use. Most of the experience is highly uniform. * Straight-up text presentation is typically quite good. Far superior to Web tools.

by untog 11y ago

added to that most websites dictate how they will display their information to me Yet you say you miss native apps, which absolutely dictate everything about how they work?

the_real_nfm 11y ago

A lot of native "apps" have either very flexible configuration, or some sort of scripting/plugin framework. Maybe not iTunes, but things like foobar2000 or conky.

TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
A few do. But most do not offer the incredible user presentation freedom the web does.
- astine 11y ago
  In choosing between presentation freedom and a sane GUI programming model, I'd choose the later, especially given that the 'presentation freedom' is problematic when I want my desktop to have a common UI theme. Take into account that modern GUI toolkits actually provide presentation freedom similar to the web without having to do without native widgets, I don't see why anyone would prefer web GUIs from a programming perspective.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
    > modern GUI toolkits actually provide presentation freedom similar to the web They let you change colours, typefaces and shapes slightly. You could do that with Windows 1. That's not the same as what CSS allows (complete reconfiguration).
    - astine 11y ago
      http://docs.oracle.com/javafx/2/api/javafx/scene/doc-files/cssref.html http://docs.oracle.com/javafx/2/api/javafx/scene/doc-files/c...

dijit 11y ago

you're right! I live in the land of UNIX and commandline, I was not talking about GUI applications. But I see why you interpreted it that way, I apologise.

dredmorbius 11y ago

For native apps: * CLI tools present in my terminal's specified fonts and colours. Near total control. The main exceptions are ANSI escapes, and even those I can limit to black-and-white -- usually normal, bold, and reverse-video. * Most desktop apps integrate into some desktop enviornment (or environment(s)) for font size(s), colours, etc. OSX is actually something of an exception, which I realised when trying to see how I might set that up for a visually disabled friend. * Even where desktop apps don't have systemwide configuration tools, you're generally seeing the same toolkit (or limited set of toolkits) in use. Most of the experience is highly uniform. * Straight-up text presentation is typically quite good. Far superior to Web tools.