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They don't believe it will solve "our" problems. They dispute the very premise that they're "ours" to begin with--your healthcare is your problem, no one else's

by ctlby 11y ago

They don't believe it will solve "our" problems. They dispute the very premise that they're "ours" to begin with--your healthcare is your problem, no one else's.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
ionised 11y ago
And this is a disgusting attitude to have. A free, universal healthcare system should be a primary goal of any civilised society. The fact that we had one and it has been eroded by decades of corporate self-interest and Tory backhanding is abhorrent.
- PlzSnow 11y ago
  The UK still has a free, universal healthcare system. Where are you getting your facts from?
  - ionised 11y ago
    I didn't say it didn't. Just that our system is being eroded and is clearly intended to be consigned to the dustbin of history if the Tories have their way.
- ctlby 11y ago
  > A free, universal healthcare system should be a primary goal of any civilised society. What premises lead you to conclude that our highest duty is to guarantee our fellow citizens the unlimited attentions of doctors, surgeons, nurses, chemists, biotechnologists, etc? Keeping in mind, of course, that fellow citizens = collection of complete strangers circumscribed by some invisible line in the dirt. > The fact that we had one and it has been eroded by decades of corporate self-interest and Tory backhanding is abhorrent. Surely that's not the only thing standing between society and your goals for it. I might start with the fact that voters have resisted paying for the things you'd like them to pay for.
  - ionised 11y ago
    > What premises lead you to conclude that our highest duty is to guarantee our fellow citizens the unlimited attentions of doctors, surgeons, nurses, chemists, biotechnologists, etc? Our status as a social species that works better when it works together and looks out for other members of the group. Refusing to contribute to a country's social programs and welfare is basically giving the middle finger to everybody who is less fortunate than yourself. Fuck you, got mine. How charitable and humanitarian. We have a much healthier and more productive society when we aren't entirely focused on material self-interest and and irrational fear of strangers or 'welfare scroungers'.
    - Consultant32452 11y ago
      15% of the US population is on Medicare. 27% of households in 2011 had someone receiving Medicaid. Nearly 50% of houses get some form of federal welfare, WIC, CHIP, etc. Our system might not be perfect, but let's not pretend like we live in a "Fuck you I got mine!" world even if someone doesn't think we should adopt something like single payer.
    - ctlby 11y ago
      > Our status as a social species that works better when it works together and looks out for other members of the group. Fair. But why define the relevant group as your countrymen? If you do not believe in positive obligations towards strangers, that definition is overly expansive. If you do believe in such obligations, it's overly restrictive-- third world residents are much poorer and are surely more deserving of your help than anyone inside the UK. > We have a much healthier and more productive society when we aren't entirely focused on material self-interest and and irrational fear of strangers or 'welfare scroungers'. There's a large space of actions between fearing strangers and showering them with handouts.
- orangecat 11y ago
  Is it "disgusting" to believe that in general people should pay for their own food, clothes, and housing, with government assistance to those who can't afford it?
  - ionised 11y ago
    > with government assistance to those who can't afford it? This is the important part of your sentence. The NHS is government assistance, paid for by everybody's taxes, for the benefit of everybody. I am absolutely in favour of this, as well as government-provided food and housing. Without free, universal healthcare those poor people than cannot afford outrageous prices under a US-style insurance system for example are, to put it midly, fucked.

by ctlby 11y ago

They don't believe it will solve "our" problems. They dispute the very premise that they're "ours" to begin with--your healthcare is your problem, no one else's.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

ionised 11y ago

And this is a disgusting attitude to have. A free, universal healthcare system should be a primary goal of any civilised society. The fact that we had one and it has been eroded by decades of corporate self-interest and Tory backhanding is abhorrent.

PlzSnow 11y ago
The UK still has a free, universal healthcare system. Where are you getting your facts from?
- ionised 11y ago
  I didn't say it didn't. Just that our system is being eroded and is clearly intended to be consigned to the dustbin of history if the Tories have their way.
ctlby 11y ago
> A free, universal healthcare system should be a primary goal of any civilised society. What premises lead you to conclude that our highest duty is to guarantee our fellow citizens the unlimited attentions of doctors, surgeons, nurses, chemists, biotechnologists, etc? Keeping in mind, of course, that fellow citizens = collection of complete strangers circumscribed by some invisible line in the dirt. > The fact that we had one and it has been eroded by decades of corporate self-interest and Tory backhanding is abhorrent. Surely that's not the only thing standing between society and your goals for it. I might start with the fact that voters have resisted paying for the things you'd like them to pay for.
- ionised 11y ago
  > What premises lead you to conclude that our highest duty is to guarantee our fellow citizens the unlimited attentions of doctors, surgeons, nurses, chemists, biotechnologists, etc? Our status as a social species that works better when it works together and looks out for other members of the group. Refusing to contribute to a country's social programs and welfare is basically giving the middle finger to everybody who is less fortunate than yourself. Fuck you, got mine. How charitable and humanitarian. We have a much healthier and more productive society when we aren't entirely focused on material self-interest and and irrational fear of strangers or 'welfare scroungers'.
  - Consultant32452 11y ago
    15% of the US population is on Medicare. 27% of households in 2011 had someone receiving Medicaid. Nearly 50% of houses get some form of federal welfare, WIC, CHIP, etc. Our system might not be perfect, but let's not pretend like we live in a "Fuck you I got mine!" world even if someone doesn't think we should adopt something like single payer.
  - ctlby 11y ago
    > Our status as a social species that works better when it works together and looks out for other members of the group. Fair. But why define the relevant group as your countrymen? If you do not believe in positive obligations towards strangers, that definition is overly expansive. If you do believe in such obligations, it's overly restrictive-- third world residents are much poorer and are surely more deserving of your help than anyone inside the UK. > We have a much healthier and more productive society when we aren't entirely focused on material self-interest and and irrational fear of strangers or 'welfare scroungers'. There's a large space of actions between fearing strangers and showering them with handouts.
orangecat 11y ago
Is it "disgusting" to believe that in general people should pay for their own food, clothes, and housing, with government assistance to those who can't afford it?
- ionised 11y ago
  > with government assistance to those who can't afford it? This is the important part of your sentence. The NHS is government assistance, paid for by everybody's taxes, for the benefit of everybody. I am absolutely in favour of this, as well as government-provided food and housing. Without free, universal healthcare those poor people than cannot afford outrageous prices under a US-style insurance system for example are, to put it midly, fucked.