3 ms·

> MS has really picked up the ball with their cloud versions integrated into Office365, which IMO, are better than Google Docs at this point. What format can I

> MS has really picked up the ball with their cloud versions integrated into Office365, which IMO, are better than Google Docs at this point. What format can I export them in?

creshal 11y ago
OOXML. It's open! It's XML! That's like twice as universally compatible! /s
- bad_user 11y ago
  OOXML only pretends to be text based, but that's not true and it only pretends to be "open" and that's not true either. The real open format is ODF, which Microsoft is supporting somewhat but with warnings and only because they were forced to do it. That's still better than Google Docs though as GDocs can only import ODF. Which is quite ironic.
  - dogma1138 11y ago
    They weren't forced to support anything, ODF is an OASIS standard these days MSFT of which is a founding member. There was quite an upheaval when ODF development moved into OASIS from W3C and included quite a few patents, and OpenOffice at the time wanted to drop support for the new ODF features.
    - bad_user 11y ago
      I should clarify - Microsoft was forced by their clients to do it. Amongst Microsoft's most important clients are governments, many of which demanded the use of standards for documents, like PDF for viewable documents or ISO/IEC 26300 for editable documents, which is the ODF standard. Some government institutions in Europe even moved to LibreOffice. Google does not have such clients for their online office suite. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument_adoption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument_adoption
      - dogma1138 11y ago
        "Forced" is used way too loosely, many people use the NATO example but they never read the fine print. NATO calls for a recommended support for ODF, but a mandatory support Office Open XML Office Open XML: Mandatory: Standard ECMA-376, Ed. 1: December 2006, Office Open XML File Formats. Open Document Format: Recommended: ISO/IEC 26300:2006, Information technology -- Open Document Format for Office Applications (OpenDocument) v1.0. https://nhqc3s.hq.nato.int/Apps/Architecture/NISP/volume3/apds05.html https://nhqc3s.hq.nato.int/Apps/Architecture/NISP/volume3/ap... Same goes for many other examples especially from the governmental sector. If MSFT wanted to bury ODF they might have managed to do so, since they've managed to get it under OASIS and tag a RAND clause into the ODF license they really don't care. EEE :)
        bad_user 11y ago
        So I'm not aware of any RAND clauses or harmful patents that made it into the ODF standard. Quite the contrary, afaik ODF is under "RF On Limited Terms", which means that all patents must be licensed for everyone's use, for free, with some provisions that are reasonable. We are not talking about RAND. And I'm not a lawyer, but if the FSF supports ODF and given they've got lawyers and have had a no compromise policy, I trust that ODF is safe. See: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/odf-oasis.html https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/odf-oasis.html So care to provide some references? PS: I wasn't thinking of NATO, but of individual countries. ODF (and not OOXML) is mandatory in France, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Germany, Russia and it's becoming mandatory in Italy.
gtk40 11y ago
Expert options are OOXML and ODF. You can choose your default. I find import/export of ODF is better than LibreOffice import/export of OOXML, FWIW.

> MS has really picked up the ball with their cloud versions integrated into Office365, which IMO, are better than Google Docs at this point. What format can I export them in?

creshal 11y ago

OOXML. It's open! It's XML! That's like twice as universally compatible! /s

bad_user 11y ago
OOXML only pretends to be text based, but that's not true and it only pretends to be "open" and that's not true either. The real open format is ODF, which Microsoft is supporting somewhat but with warnings and only because they were forced to do it. That's still better than Google Docs though as GDocs can only import ODF. Which is quite ironic.
- dogma1138 11y ago
  They weren't forced to support anything, ODF is an OASIS standard these days MSFT of which is a founding member. There was quite an upheaval when ODF development moved into OASIS from W3C and included quite a few patents, and OpenOffice at the time wanted to drop support for the new ODF features.
  - bad_user 11y ago
    I should clarify - Microsoft was forced by their clients to do it. Amongst Microsoft's most important clients are governments, many of which demanded the use of standards for documents, like PDF for viewable documents or ISO/IEC 26300 for editable documents, which is the ODF standard. Some government institutions in Europe even moved to LibreOffice. Google does not have such clients for their online office suite. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument_adoption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument_adoption
    - dogma1138 11y ago
      "Forced" is used way too loosely, many people use the NATO example but they never read the fine print. NATO calls for a recommended support for ODF, but a mandatory support Office Open XML Office Open XML: Mandatory: Standard ECMA-376, Ed. 1: December 2006, Office Open XML File Formats. Open Document Format: Recommended: ISO/IEC 26300:2006, Information technology -- Open Document Format for Office Applications (OpenDocument) v1.0. https://nhqc3s.hq.nato.int/Apps/Architecture/NISP/volume3/apds05.html https://nhqc3s.hq.nato.int/Apps/Architecture/NISP/volume3/ap... Same goes for many other examples especially from the governmental sector. If MSFT wanted to bury ODF they might have managed to do so, since they've managed to get it under OASIS and tag a RAND clause into the ODF license they really don't care. EEE :)
      - bad_user 11y ago
        So I'm not aware of any RAND clauses or harmful patents that made it into the ODF standard. Quite the contrary, afaik ODF is under "RF On Limited Terms", which means that all patents must be licensed for everyone's use, for free, with some provisions that are reasonable. We are not talking about RAND. And I'm not a lawyer, but if the FSF supports ODF and given they've got lawyers and have had a no compromise policy, I trust that ODF is safe. See: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/odf-oasis.html https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/odf-oasis.html So care to provide some references? PS: I wasn't thinking of NATO, but of individual countries. ODF (and not OOXML) is mandatory in France, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Germany, Russia and it's becoming mandatory in Italy.

gtk40 11y ago

Expert options are OOXML and ODF. You can choose your default. I find import/export of ODF is better than LibreOffice import/export of OOXML, FWIW.