8 ms·

I don't see roundabouts as a replacement for traffic lights in the US. Above a certain traffic volume, you'll almost always want to move to traffic lights anywa

• r0m4n0 11y ago
  Or my personal favorite in Sacramento, roundabout with some stop signs sprinkled in. I hear horns and accidents daily... https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5801855,-121.4694376,3a,75y,210.19h,69.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3yb-E21Li76n8bfNCBpINw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1 https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5801855,-121.4694376,3a,75y,...
  • fryguy 11y ago
    That's not really a roundabout though, it's a traffic circle, which is a replacement for speed bumps. I have one of those near my house in Sacramento as well.
  • jotux 11y ago
    Live in Sacramento, the half-roundabouts drive me crazy. Here's another: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6759386,-121.5367581,3a,90y,249.97h,57.49t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sdd_YkL3XJu7bDNqbRXo4tQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Ddd_YkL3XJu7bDNqbRXo4tQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D98.265709%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6759386,-121.5367581,3a,90y,...
    • ScottRAB 11y ago
      Neighborhood traffic circles are not modern roundabouts. Many people confuse other and older styles of circular intersections with modern roundabouts. East coast rotaries, large multi-lane traffic circles (Arc D’Triomphe, Dupont Circle), and small neighborhood traffic circles are not modern roundabouts. If you want to see the difference between a traffic circle, a rotary (UK roundabout) and a modern roundabout (UK continental roundabout), go to http://tinyurl.com/kstate-RAB http://tinyurl.com/kstate-RAB to see pictures. And here’s another site that shows the difference between an older rotary and a modern roundabout: http://tinyurl.com/bzf7qmg http://tinyurl.com/bzf7qmg
  • function_seven 11y ago
    Wait. Is that a 2-way stop? That looks dangerous as hell. If I come upon a stop sign with a island in the middle of the intersection, it is easy to assume that everyone has to stop.
    • fryguy 11y ago
      There are a lot of 2-way stops in that area.
      • function_seven 11y ago
        My wording is kinda of muddy. A 2-way stop isn't itself dangerous. I think seeing an island makes the intersection appear more like a roundabout, and makes drivers approaching from the side streets think that all entrances to that roundabout will have a stop sign.
        • ScottRAB 11y ago
          DMV manual fail. All way stops have a small sign below the stop sign that says ALL WAY. Any stop sign without that rider sign is not at an all way stop intersection.
          • function_seven 11y ago
            Yup. I am a fan of this sign (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cross_traffic_does_not_stop_2.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cross_traffic_does_n...) instead of this one (http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersection/resources/casestudies/fhwasa09010/images/f1.jpg http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersection/resources/casestudie...)
            • fryguy 11y ago
              If you look a few blocks away there's that sign: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5676945,-121.4748759,3a,75y,15.27h,76.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sA21X5jfgdyWSwX6PC4yHtQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5676945,-121.4748759,3a,75y,...
  • ilyanep 11y ago
    There are some of these in Palo Alto, as well. I don't think they tend to result in accidents, but I never really understood the point of putting a stop sign on a roundabout. If I remember correctly, the justification of these here is that they are better for bikes than 4-way stops (which is true, but they're probably not the optimal solution). https://www.google.com/maps/@37.4420644,-122.1552851,3a,75y,219.23h,67.83t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s5BYzQOT9mKCND675RDMr2w!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D5BYzQOT9mKCND675RDMr2w%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D337.47928%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@37.4420644,-122.1552851,3a,75y,...
    • ScottRAB 11y ago
      If it has a stop sign, it is a traffic circle with different rules than a modern roundabout.
  • verelo 11y ago
    Roundabouts with stop signs are insane, i see them in Ontario too and cannot figure them out. Coming from Australia (that admittedly at times tends to over uses roundabouts) all i can ever wonder when i see a quiet road with traffic lights, or a seemingly pointless 4 way stop sign is "WHY IS THIS NOT A ROUNDABOUT?" I agree at a certain volume there are better alternatives, but there are massive benefits for a very long time and if you have the room for a large enough roundabout they can handle massive volume. Here is a decent example that is just near Newcastle University in Australia. Traffic lights here would likely be much slower: https://goo.gl/maps/MPhri8vrt5M2 https://goo.gl/maps/MPhri8vrt5M2 Side note: North America, please stop abusing using "stop" signs. No one stops anyway, just make them "Yield" signs unless its a seriously bad intersection.
    • duaneb 11y ago
      > North America, please stop abusing using "stop" signs. No one stops anyway, just make them "Yield" signs unless its a seriously bad intersection. Maybe outside of cities. In cities, they are the best thing ever for pedestrians.
      • Tloewald 11y ago
        Agreed. And besides which stop signs may get treated as yield but yield signs are treated even worse. The only thing better than stop signs for pedestrians (and I'd say they're better than traffic lights with dedicated pedestrian signals in most cases) is probably total chaos (as per some cities in switzerland) where there's seven way intersections with trams and no clear boundary between sidewalk and road, and motorists just need to stop and figure it out.
      • ajmurmann 11y ago
        Cars still would still have to stop for pedestrians at the yield sign. Works very well in other countries. If there are too many pedestrians, just put a traffic light up to regulate traffic between pedestrians and cars. Key here though is that the light isn't on a timer but actually adjusts to someone pressing the button or a car rolling over a sensor in the ground.
      • 11y ago
  • Tloewald 11y ago
    For true insanity you need to go to Washington DC which has roundabouts with divided lanes, pedestrian crossings, traffic lights, stop signs, and turning lanes. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Washington,+DC/@38.9092507,-77.0429818,3a,75y,232.54h,89.8t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1srKUH2bp97u4rkVdd67koeQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DrKUH2bp97u4rkVdd67koeQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D304.40421%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x89b7c6de5af6e45b:0xc2524522d4885d2a!6m1!1e1 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Washington,+DC/@38.9092507... https://www.google.com/maps/place/Washington,+DC/@38.9020455,-77.0497812,3a,75y,34.3h,86.19t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sCC1wkbIi8pfu4KAONWQjlw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DCC1wkbIi8pfu4KAONWQjlw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D315.16916%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x89b7c6de5af6e45b:0xc2524522d4885d2a!6m1!1e1 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Washington,+DC/@38.9020455...
    • r00fus 11y ago
      This is pretty common in France. Every major city has like dozens of these kinds of intersections (e.g. behind the Trocadero, around the Arc de Triomphe, etc)
      • Tloewald 11y ago
        My recollection is that the roundabouts in Paris are free for alls (a whole different kind of crazy, but it seems to work). I checked the satellite images of the circle around the arc de triomphe and it seems to be as I remember. There may be lights regulating entry into the circle, but the lanes aren't divided. And if I recall correctly pedestrians access the middle via underground walkway. I just checked via Google street view and it confirms my memory.
    • ScottRAB 11y ago
      Traffic circles and rotaries are not modern roundabouts. If any of the entry lanes has a stop sign, it’s not a modern roundabout. If you could play a game of football in the center landscaped area, it’s not a modern roundabout. If the circular roadway has a stop sign, yield sign or signal, it’s not a modern roundabout. If you don’t have to slow down to enter it, it’s not a modern roundabout. If you have to change lanes in the circular roadway to exit, it’s not a modern roundabout. If you can easily drive faster than 20 mph in the circular roadway, it’s not a modern roundabout. If it has a park for pedestrians, or a building, in the middle, it’s not a modern roundabout.
  • mmanfrin 11y ago
    That's not a roundabout. That is a 2-way stop with a speed-abatement island.
• ArtDev 11y ago
  It depends where you live. Personally, I love roundabouts and so does my city.
• tracker1 11y ago
  Exactly... it's almost an intermediate step... too many locations move from 2/4-way stops straight to lights, when they rarely see enough traffic to really justify it... I think more rural and suburban locations are probably best for this... If you have more than 2 lanes of traffic in either direction, they're a bad idea... I've seen them used pretty well for certain highway on/off ramps too.
• jdc0589 11y ago
  my city has a few normal roundabouts, and then one insane version where the cars in the roundabout have to yield to people entering. its pretty bad...
• ajmurmann 11y ago
  There are actually a lot of good cases for roundabout over intersection with traffic lights, but I think that's really something that needs to be decided on a per intersection basis. To me the best replacement for a 4-way stop is really giving one street the right of way and using a yield sign for the less important street. However, that seems to be unheard of in the US.
  • eridius 11y ago
    That can make it really hard for the less important street to actually get across, if there are cars coming frequently enough on the more important street. Perhaps more importantly, a yield only works if the yielding street has adequate visibility, and it's primarily only used when merging into a lane (as opposed to crossing an intersection) because trying to keep track of oncoming traffic in both directions and determining when it's safe to cross can be quite hazardous. In general, the 4-way stop is something that should be rarely used, but is appropriate in some cases. There's a 4-way stop near where I live that I think is very appropriate; the busier road isn't so busy that a stop sign causes traffic to pile up, but is busy enough that if it were given unimpeded flow, the cross street would have difficulty crossing. But installing a traffic light would likely cause longer delays on average for cars, and would also be a bit of a problem as the intersection is at the top of a hill and a traffic light would cause traffic on the main street to back up down the hill (and you don't want people to stop on an uphill if they don't have to). FWIW, if topography allowed, this would make for a good roundabout spot. But it would take up a bit more space than the (admittedly large) intersection, and the topography of the hill would cause a problem. I suspect that something similar could be said of all appropriate 4-way stop signs, that they'd be better as roundabouts if space and/or topography wasn't a concern.
• kazinator 11y ago
  > 4-way Stop - a ridiculous type of intersection that ought not to exist. Ought not to exist in places like Europe, perhaps. The four-way stop has the virtue that it is easy for Americans and Canadians to understand. 1. Everyone arriving at the four-way pretends to stop by slowing down to around 20 mph. 2. Regardless of who arrived first, if two or more vehicles take conflicting paths, the biggest asshole goes first. (The algorithm for determining this party takes into account factors such as vehicle size, general socio-economic background, minimum velocity achieved during four-way stop approach, and their apparent perception of where the white stop line is.) 3. When two vehicles take nonconflicting paths (e.g. two directly facing vehicles both go right) they need not acknowledge each others' existence. 4. Only left turns must be indicated. If someone fails to indicate while approaching, they are assumed to be going straight or turning right. Should that be incorrect, the situation is resolved by a fair division of rights: right of way is given to the non-indicating left turner($), whereas the inconvenienced/threatened party is given the right to several prolonged honks of the horn. 5. Where visibility over the other converging roads is not obstructed by building, bush or otherwise, the four-way stop may be completely ignored when not approached by another vehicle with an estimated arrival time that is within a second, either way, of one's own arrival time. (Pedestrians and cyclists may optionally be counted as vehicles at the driver's discretion.) Who needs roundabouts? ---- $. The governing principle here is consistency -- with rule (2).
  • herbig 11y ago
    Where exactly do you live? I've driven all over the east coast and have never, ever seen any of this to be remotely true.
    • Nadya 11y ago
      My guess is west coast. (1) is even lovely titled "California Pit Stop". Because people from California don't know to stop on the white line (or have a terrible perception of where the front of their vehicle is) many people stop in the pedestrian crossing. They proceed to roll through the 4-way stop so long as they don't see anyone. Although 20mph is cutting it, perhaps 10-15? Either way they never come to a full and complete stop. (2) is because seemingly nobody knows 4-way stops are FIFO and believe it's "Straights first then turns". If paths are non-conflicting, both people will go at the same time. (4) is only partially true. If you're in a rush, left-signalling is not necessary; it's user discretion. Also all straight/right turn lanes are assumed to be straight, since nobody signals right turns. This is a reminder that it is your fault for not turning right due to potential oncoming traffic and the car behind you will occasionally honk in irritation that you didn't pull out in front of traffic that was potentially continuing straight. Driving in the L.A area is hell.