4 ms·

Why do the floors of the subway have to be much so worse than the floors of Grand Central Station, or for that matter, the ground in Bryant Park? All are open t

Why do the floors of the subway have to be much so worse than the floors of Grand Central Station, or for that matter, the ground in Bryant Park? All are open to the public and incredibly heavily trafficked. The only difference is funding. NYC subways remain woefully underfunded. There's no big secret of what it would take to fully fund a clean subway system. The answer is $100 M a year [1]. Now, should the capital infrastructure cost less? Of course. But there is no reason for the economic arterial system of the whole region to remain so filthy in the meantime. The only potential revenue source that could credibly provide the MTA with the money it needs to bring all stations to a "State of Good Repair" [2], install valuable upgrades like train locator screens and sliding platform doors, and keep the stations clean is a congestion tax like Move NY [3]. A congestion tax would also have the benefit of making Manhattan a much more walkable and ridable city and would even make rush hour taxis move faster. But until there's political will to implement a congestion tax, I don't expect any meaningful improvements in the subways. [1] http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/09/30/cleaning-the-system-would-cost-100-million/ http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/09/30/cleaning-the-system-... [2] http://secondavenuesagas.com/2015/09/10/cbc-mtas-state-of-good-repair-remains-forever-elusive/ http://secondavenuesagas.com/2015/09/10/cbc-mtas-state-of-go... [3] http://iheartmoveny.org/ http://iheartmoveny.org/

CPLX 11y ago
One of the reasons is that they have giant trains running next to them, in a way your other two examples don't. Trains create a lot of dirt and dust from wheels and brakes among other things. If you compare the actual platforms at Grand Central to a subway station they're pretty similar actually. Also both of your other examples close at night, the subway does not. The subways are generally not that different in cleanliness from the corresponding streets and sidewalks above them. You could ask a different question, which is why NYC as a whole is not very clean, but that's a much more involved and complicated question than this facile complaint.
- dankohn1 11y ago
  Better example then is PATH, which is 24 hours and has markedly cleaner stations. However, its costs are closer to a commuter railroad at $10 per rider [1]. [1] http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2015/01/whats_the_real_reason_the_port_authority_is_targeting_the_path.html http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2015/01/whats_the_real_reas...
bradleyjg 11y ago
A congestion tax is a fine idea, but I disagree that it is the only potential revenue source that could credibly provide the MTA with the money it needs. Other options include bringing back the commuter tax which was foolishly eliminated for short-term political gain, and getting more of our money back from Albany and/or Washington.
- dankohn1 11y ago
  Money is fungible, so all sorts of new taxes could work. But Move NY actually might be able to pass, as it is intelligently designed to actually subsidize outer borough bridge users who were most penalized by past congestion tax proposals. It also represents a Pigovian tax on congestion.
  - bradleyjg 11y ago
    It might well reduce the cost for the occasional driver who wants to leave the city or those few that commute from one outer boro to another, but the people that most opposed the former proposal were those that commuted from Queens or Brooklyn to Manhattan. This proposal looks to lead to the same unhappiness from that group -- indeed any realistic proposal would, since a basic goal is to get them to stop doing that.

CPLX 11y ago

One of the reasons is that they have giant trains running next to them, in a way your other two examples don't. Trains create a lot of dirt and dust from wheels and brakes among other things. If you compare the actual platforms at Grand Central to a subway station they're pretty similar actually. Also both of your other examples close at night, the subway does not. The subways are generally not that different in cleanliness from the corresponding streets and sidewalks above them. You could ask a different question, which is why NYC as a whole is not very clean, but that's a much more involved and complicated question than this facile complaint.

dankohn1 11y ago
Better example then is PATH, which is 24 hours and has markedly cleaner stations. However, its costs are closer to a commuter railroad at $10 per rider [1]. [1] http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2015/01/whats_the_real_reason_the_port_authority_is_targeting_the_path.html http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2015/01/whats_the_real_reas...

bradleyjg 11y ago

A congestion tax is a fine idea, but I disagree that it is the only potential revenue source that could credibly provide the MTA with the money it needs. Other options include bringing back the commuter tax which was foolishly eliminated for short-term political gain, and getting more of our money back from Albany and/or Washington.

dankohn1 11y ago
Money is fungible, so all sorts of new taxes could work. But Move NY actually might be able to pass, as it is intelligently designed to actually subsidize outer borough bridge users who were most penalized by past congestion tax proposals. It also represents a Pigovian tax on congestion.
- bradleyjg 11y ago
  It might well reduce the cost for the occasional driver who wants to leave the city or those few that commute from one outer boro to another, but the people that most opposed the former proposal were those that commuted from Queens or Brooklyn to Manhattan. This proposal looks to lead to the same unhappiness from that group -- indeed any realistic proposal would, since a basic goal is to get them to stop doing that.