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Just weighing in on the Olson thing: Why is it considered unprofessional or inappropriate for a company rep to speak openly about the illegal/unethical practice

Just weighing in on the Olson thing: Why is it considered unprofessional or inappropriate for a company rep to speak openly about the illegal/unethical practices of now former employees? Isn't that a good thing to hear about that a company you do business with is culling the ranks of those stealing from it, or whatever they happen to be doing? If he admitted it and resigned over it, sounds like a pretty cut and dried case that he did it. Screw his reputation, and screw him. Maybe if this stuff was made public more often so that misbehaving executives got more punishment than a tiny ass fine and a huge sum of money, we'd have less of a crony-capitalist system going on these days.

jsprogrammer 11y ago
Why would you believe anything Amazon or Jay Carney says? Do you really think they are giving you an unbiased view of their company? That they have no ulterior motive in saying these things to you?
- FussyZeus 11y ago
  Well in the first place I didn't mean strictly Amazon, I'm speaking in general. I'm talking more about the general attitude that "this guy stole from us/our customers/our vendors, but we can't say anything publicly". That was more what I was talking about. Back to the Amazon thing you're discussing, while I'm sure it's a high pressure workplace that isn't suited for everyone, the Times piece was as sensationalized if not moreso than the rebuff here. The rebuff I'm sure is biased to the company. As with most things, the truth isn't on either side, it's somewhere in the middle, though frankly the matter of fact stating and the clear context of the Amazon rebuff does ring true-r to me, but that's only IMHO.
  - jsprogrammer 11y ago
    Amazon will state any "fact" that they think will turn your opinion.
    - FussyZeus 11y ago
      I can't fathom a workplace where every other day 1/4 of the staff is weeping at their desks and anyone is still working there, especially when the tech market is so highly competitive for good people. Now does that mean it's as eased back as Bezos says? Highly unlikely. More than likely it's an office just like everyone elses, plus or minus a few amenities and a more intense corporate culture.
      - jsprogrammer 11y ago
        Sorry, I'm not familiar with the specific claim that every other day 1/4 of Amazon's staff is weeping at their desk. Can you show me where someone has made that claim?
        FussyZeus 11y ago
        If you cannot make a point without resorting to semantics I'm not interested in hearing it. Either you knew exactly what I meant and are grasping at straws to continue arguing because you have an axe to grind with Amazon, or you thought I was actually referencing a report indicating 1/4 of their staff was weeping at their desks every other day and that somehow that company is still in business. Both possibilities are equally uninteresting.
        jsprogrammer 11y ago
        Maybe you should make an actual point instead of talking about made up fantasies? I can't guess what every person means from behind their screen. I can only read the text you post.
        FussyZeus 11y ago
        The point is (and was) that if things are that horrific, there's no way in hell they could hold on to staff to be as successful as they are. Not enough people, especially in a job market as competitive as the ones they are in are, would be willing to subject themselves to that kind of hell just to work at Amazon.
TravelTechGuy 11y ago
Please look at the bigger picture: this is Amazon telling it's current (and future?) employees: if you ever say anything bad about us, all your records will go public, and our head of PR will use any inconsideration in them to argue that your opinion is invalid. Fraud may have been the outlier case here: he's also outing reviews of other people whose opinions he/his employers don't like. That's one way to deal with whistle blowers, and scare the rest of the herd: don't mess with us - we've got your files, and we ain't afraid to put them on Medium.
- FussyZeus 11y ago
  Two things: - I have zero problem with a company releasing info pertaining the character of an employee. - If you're an employee doing your job honestly, you shouldn't either.
  - iterati 11y ago
    Who needs privacy when you have nothing to hide?
    - FussyZeus 11y ago
      What you do at your workplace is by definition not private and shouldn't be. When you're on the company clock using the companies resources, the company should know what you're doing, and you should be ok with that. And if any of those things bother you, sorry, you're the problem.
      - tremon 11y ago
        Actually, what you do on company time is private. Or are you arguing that all meeting minutes should always be publicly accessible? Also, you may have misunderstood the meaning of privacy. If I tell I'm terminally ill, it is no longer a private matter, since you know it too. Does that mean you telling the whole world is the right thing to do? What you appear to be arguing is that your employer may choose to make public anything about you that happened on company time. That is a huge power imbalance, as you certainly don't have the same privilege about your employer, as you depend on them for your livelihood. We have laws to remedy that power imbalance, that is why you have a reasonable expectation of privacy even in the workplace. It has nothing to do with "private" in itself. It is just one of the tools civilization has developed to prevent exploitation.

jsprogrammer 11y ago

Why would you believe anything Amazon or Jay Carney says? Do you really think they are giving you an unbiased view of their company? That they have no ulterior motive in saying these things to you?

FussyZeus 11y ago
Well in the first place I didn't mean strictly Amazon, I'm speaking in general. I'm talking more about the general attitude that "this guy stole from us/our customers/our vendors, but we can't say anything publicly". That was more what I was talking about. Back to the Amazon thing you're discussing, while I'm sure it's a high pressure workplace that isn't suited for everyone, the Times piece was as sensationalized if not moreso than the rebuff here. The rebuff I'm sure is biased to the company. As with most things, the truth isn't on either side, it's somewhere in the middle, though frankly the matter of fact stating and the clear context of the Amazon rebuff does ring true-r to me, but that's only IMHO.
- jsprogrammer 11y ago
  Amazon will state any "fact" that they think will turn your opinion.
  - FussyZeus 11y ago
    I can't fathom a workplace where every other day 1/4 of the staff is weeping at their desks and anyone is still working there, especially when the tech market is so highly competitive for good people. Now does that mean it's as eased back as Bezos says? Highly unlikely. More than likely it's an office just like everyone elses, plus or minus a few amenities and a more intense corporate culture.
    - jsprogrammer 11y ago
      Sorry, I'm not familiar with the specific claim that every other day 1/4 of Amazon's staff is weeping at their desk. Can you show me where someone has made that claim?
      - FussyZeus 11y ago
        If you cannot make a point without resorting to semantics I'm not interested in hearing it. Either you knew exactly what I meant and are grasping at straws to continue arguing because you have an axe to grind with Amazon, or you thought I was actually referencing a report indicating 1/4 of their staff was weeping at their desks every other day and that somehow that company is still in business. Both possibilities are equally uninteresting.
        jsprogrammer 11y ago
        Maybe you should make an actual point instead of talking about made up fantasies? I can't guess what every person means from behind their screen. I can only read the text you post.
        FussyZeus 11y ago
        The point is (and was) that if things are that horrific, there's no way in hell they could hold on to staff to be as successful as they are. Not enough people, especially in a job market as competitive as the ones they are in are, would be willing to subject themselves to that kind of hell just to work at Amazon.

TravelTechGuy 11y ago

Please look at the bigger picture: this is Amazon telling it's current (and future?) employees: if you ever say anything bad about us, all your records will go public, and our head of PR will use any inconsideration in them to argue that your opinion is invalid. Fraud may have been the outlier case here: he's also outing reviews of other people whose opinions he/his employers don't like. That's one way to deal with whistle blowers, and scare the rest of the herd: don't mess with us - we've got your files, and we ain't afraid to put them on Medium.

FussyZeus 11y ago
Two things: - I have zero problem with a company releasing info pertaining the character of an employee. - If you're an employee doing your job honestly, you shouldn't either.
- iterati 11y ago
  Who needs privacy when you have nothing to hide?
  - FussyZeus 11y ago
    What you do at your workplace is by definition not private and shouldn't be. When you're on the company clock using the companies resources, the company should know what you're doing, and you should be ok with that. And if any of those things bother you, sorry, you're the problem.
    - tremon 11y ago
      Actually, what you do on company time is private. Or are you arguing that all meeting minutes should always be publicly accessible? Also, you may have misunderstood the meaning of privacy. If I tell I'm terminally ill, it is no longer a private matter, since you know it too. Does that mean you telling the whole world is the right thing to do? What you appear to be arguing is that your employer may choose to make public anything about you that happened on company time. That is a huge power imbalance, as you certainly don't have the same privilege about your employer, as you depend on them for your livelihood. We have laws to remedy that power imbalance, that is why you have a reasonable expectation of privacy even in the workplace. It has nothing to do with "private" in itself. It is just one of the tools civilization has developed to prevent exploitation.