10 ms·

I am turning 40 in a year and almost everyone I work with is 15 years younger than I am. My opinion is that you have it all wrong. I don't think younger enginee

by lemevi 11y ago

I am turning 40 in a year and almost everyone I work with is 15 years younger than I am. My opinion is that you have it all wrong. I don't think younger engineers are hostile to old age, but culture fit is important. It's not about your age but how you carry yourself. Until you're in your 70's you can probably afford to make an effort to understand the culture of 20 somethings. You can look to speakers at tech conferences and many are probably as old as you and I but don't have any problems fitting in with their younger peers. You just have to be willing to adapt yourself to fit in with who you work with. If you aren't interested in making personal changes because you shouldn't think you need to just to earn a paycheck then well you're probably not a good culture fit. You need to make an effort. I enjoy the same things my peers do, we play the same games, we watch the same things and read the same websites. It's not fake with me. I'm not trying too hard. I'm just not getting stuck in old ways.

falcolas 11y ago
Culture is based as much by the outliers as it is the core group. Also experiences/opinions offered by those outliers can be quite useful to avoid the herd mentality. I've seen too many folks rejected as "cultural mis-matches" not because they don't get along with everyone else, but because they have different interests outside of work. That's just silly.
- Vraxx 11y ago
  Maybe that isn't all the inaccurate of a dismissal, if the culture there is work to the bone, then somebody with non-work interests would certainly not enjoy the culture there. Not saying that I endorse that kind of culture, just that "culture mis-match" might just be the most accurate statement at that point.
  - falcolas 11y ago
    Most accurate, perhaps, but also quite likely the least relevant statement. You're not looking to move in with them, after all. If you'd like a really simplistic example of why that form of culture just doesn't matter, have a look at Adam Savage and Jamie Hineman(sic). They have never even had dinner together, yet they make for a very effective team at work.
    - nommm-nommm 11y ago
      Penn and Teller are also known to only be business partners and don't communicate outside of work. They are however extremely successful and prolific.
  - s73v3r 11y ago
    Then come out and say it. I'd be all for the phrase "culture mis-match" being banned. If you can't properly articulate why you don't want to hire someone, then the problem is with you, not the applicant.
protomyth 11y ago
"I don't think younger engineers are hostile to old age, but culture fit is important." I'm pretty sure that is basically the definition of age discrimination people are facing. Its the same line given for other groups. This fascination with cultural fit which is basically group think given your examples (e.g. "I enjoy the same things my peers do, we play the same games, we watch the same things and read the same websites.") is disturbing and reminds me a bit too much of high school not business where experience and talent applied to implementation are important.
- lemevi 11y ago
  > I'm pretty sure that is basically the definition of age discrimination people are facing. Age discrimination is based on a fact you can't do anything about, your age. A company's culture is very important, a vital aspect of its identity. If you aren't open to making a change then you probably don't belong. Anyway, a lot of things people my age and older like are just the things 20 year olds liked when they were 20.
  - protomyth 11y ago
    Let's review a second so I can understand something, how does "I enjoy the same things my peers do, we play the same games, we watch the same things and read the same websites." equal a company's culture? The HP Way is a company culture, what you describe is a social club.
    - usefulcat 11y ago
      Many companies--especially tech companies--deliberately blur the line between those two things.
      - protomyth 11y ago
        I'm starting to get that. They don't seem to want a company cultural. It really seems like they want a posse or fraternity. When you look at it that way, of course anyone outside a very narrow demographic is unacceptable. Why does the image of a party of wizards that forgot to bring the fighters, clerics, and rogues come to my head?
el_fuser 11y ago
Diversity isn't about making personal changes to fit in with a group that is different than yourself.
kazinator 11y ago
You might not sense anything at forty especially if you're one of these youthful "40 going on 27" types, and the mid 20's people pretty much accept you as one of them. People's stereotypical ideas of what forty looks like doesn't match all the examples of what forty actually looks like.
yodsanklai 11y ago
> You need to make an effort. I enjoy the same things my peers do, we play the same games, we watch the same things and read the same websites I really don't see why colleagues should read the same websites or play the same games! You can have a very good work relationship with someone that has a totally different lifestyle.
ap22213 11y ago
I'm 40, and this year I finally feel the pressure. I grew up in a world without google. My first instinct is to figure out a solution to the problem - and it's really hard to break that habit. Although the strategy had served me well for a very long time, it just doesn't work these days. What's more important is one's ability to be resourceful - to google the quickest. I don't mean that as a negative - some of these 25 year olds just blow my mind with how fast they can find the right code snippet that they need and integrate it using specialized IDEs. It's not that I can't do it, it's just not a skill that I have strength in. And, in a way, I doubt I can gain it. The squeeze comes from salary and title. At the top of the pyramid, it's hard to gracefully slide down. This is a world where it's up or out.

by lemevi 11y ago

falcolas 11y ago

Culture is based as much by the outliers as it is the core group. Also experiences/opinions offered by those outliers can be quite useful to avoid the herd mentality. I've seen too many folks rejected as "cultural mis-matches" not because they don't get along with everyone else, but because they have different interests outside of work. That's just silly.

Vraxx 11y ago
Maybe that isn't all the inaccurate of a dismissal, if the culture there is work to the bone, then somebody with non-work interests would certainly not enjoy the culture there. Not saying that I endorse that kind of culture, just that "culture mis-match" might just be the most accurate statement at that point.
- falcolas 11y ago
  Most accurate, perhaps, but also quite likely the least relevant statement. You're not looking to move in with them, after all. If you'd like a really simplistic example of why that form of culture just doesn't matter, have a look at Adam Savage and Jamie Hineman(sic). They have never even had dinner together, yet they make for a very effective team at work.
  - nommm-nommm 11y ago
    Penn and Teller are also known to only be business partners and don't communicate outside of work. They are however extremely successful and prolific.
- s73v3r 11y ago
  Then come out and say it. I'd be all for the phrase "culture mis-match" being banned. If you can't properly articulate why you don't want to hire someone, then the problem is with you, not the applicant.

protomyth 11y ago

"I don't think younger engineers are hostile to old age, but culture fit is important." I'm pretty sure that is basically the definition of age discrimination people are facing. Its the same line given for other groups. This fascination with cultural fit which is basically group think given your examples (e.g. "I enjoy the same things my peers do, we play the same games, we watch the same things and read the same websites.") is disturbing and reminds me a bit too much of high school not business where experience and talent applied to implementation are important.

lemevi 11y ago
> I'm pretty sure that is basically the definition of age discrimination people are facing. Age discrimination is based on a fact you can't do anything about, your age. A company's culture is very important, a vital aspect of its identity. If you aren't open to making a change then you probably don't belong. Anyway, a lot of things people my age and older like are just the things 20 year olds liked when they were 20.
- protomyth 11y ago
  Let's review a second so I can understand something, how does "I enjoy the same things my peers do, we play the same games, we watch the same things and read the same websites." equal a company's culture? The HP Way is a company culture, what you describe is a social club.
  - usefulcat 11y ago
    Many companies--especially tech companies--deliberately blur the line between those two things.
    - protomyth 11y ago
      I'm starting to get that. They don't seem to want a company cultural. It really seems like they want a posse or fraternity. When you look at it that way, of course anyone outside a very narrow demographic is unacceptable. Why does the image of a party of wizards that forgot to bring the fighters, clerics, and rogues come to my head?

el_fuser 11y ago

Diversity isn't about making personal changes to fit in with a group that is different than yourself.

kazinator 11y ago

You might not sense anything at forty especially if you're one of these youthful "40 going on 27" types, and the mid 20's people pretty much accept you as one of them. People's stereotypical ideas of what forty looks like doesn't match all the examples of what forty actually looks like.

yodsanklai 11y ago

> You need to make an effort. I enjoy the same things my peers do, we play the same games, we watch the same things and read the same websites I really don't see why colleagues should read the same websites or play the same games! You can have a very good work relationship with someone that has a totally different lifestyle.

ap22213 11y ago

I'm 40, and this year I finally feel the pressure. I grew up in a world without google. My first instinct is to figure out a solution to the problem - and it's really hard to break that habit. Although the strategy had served me well for a very long time, it just doesn't work these days. What's more important is one's ability to be resourceful - to google the quickest. I don't mean that as a negative - some of these 25 year olds just blow my mind with how fast they can find the right code snippet that they need and integrate it using specialized IDEs. It's not that I can't do it, it's just not a skill that I have strength in. And, in a way, I doubt I can gain it. The squeeze comes from salary and title. At the top of the pyramid, it's hard to gracefully slide down. This is a world where it's up or out.