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So I googled it, and for Germany there seems to be a mean cost of 118,000 € per student for the whole degree. It is very different depending on degree and also

by kaybe 11y ago

So I googled it, and for Germany there seems to be a mean cost of 118,000 € per student for the whole degree. It is very different depending on degree and also university. Medicine is very expensive and half the money goes into educating doctors. The cost per year per student ranges between 5930 € and 12,170€ over the Bundesländer (counties), maybe depending on the degrees offered? [1] I found a number for the average cost in the US at US$36,564 per year [2], which today is 32,199 €. So, for Germany, it's about a third per year on average. edit: Is the US tuition the full cost? [1]http://www.spiegel.de/unispiegel/studium/grossbild-263275-288574.html http://www.spiegel.de/unispiegel/studium/grossbild-263275-28... [2]http://www.topuniversities.com/student-info/student-finance/how-much-does-it-cost-study-us http://www.topuniversities.com/student-info/student-finance/...

nmrm2 11y ago
The German number is measuring the cost. The US is measuring the amount that universities charge. Those are two very different things. The actual cost is probably still substantially smaller in Germany -- IMO higher ed is one of those areas where markets create lots of inefficiences that a mostly or completely socialized system doesn't have (e.g., spending tens of millions on fancy new buildings and other amenities designed to attract people).
- Tideflat 11y ago
  The lesson of the USSR seems to have been that competitive free markets tend to be more efficient than socialized ones, because the inefficient universities would be out competed by the efficient ones. (You could still be right though, because universities are not a perfectly free market.)
  - nmrm2 11y ago
    > The lesson of the USSR seems to have been... ...that victors write the history books. Seriously, the notion that there was a single cause for the decline of the USSR -- and that this cause corresponds exactly to the ideologies at the heart of its antagonistic relationship with its enemies -- is prime facia suspicious. There were a myriad of economic, structural, political, environmental, geopolitical, and military reasons for the collapse of the USSR. Boiling all of that down to "Socialism Bad" is a nice rallying cry, but not exactly a helpful analysis (or at all likely to be very accurate). >... because the inefficient universities would be out competed by the efficient ones What does this even mean? What does it mean for a university to be "efficient"? I think you're confusing what ideology claims should happen with observable reality; namely, that higher education in the US is 1) closer to a free market than peer nations; and 2) horrendously more expensive than peer nations. >... because universities are not a perfectly free market It's one thing to say "we don't know what works, so let's try the thing that one particular ideology prescribes." It's another thing to say "Those people over there don't have our problem. I bet the reason is because we're not doubled down on the exact opposite of what they're doing." In any case, I think I answered above why a free market won't fix higher education: brand names / flashy stadiums / dorms / academic buildings sell better than good instruction and solid research.

by kaybe 11y ago

nmrm2 11y ago

The German number is measuring the cost. The US is measuring the amount that universities charge. Those are two very different things. The actual cost is probably still substantially smaller in Germany -- IMO higher ed is one of those areas where markets create lots of inefficiences that a mostly or completely socialized system doesn't have (e.g., spending tens of millions on fancy new buildings and other amenities designed to attract people).

Tideflat 11y ago
The lesson of the USSR seems to have been that competitive free markets tend to be more efficient than socialized ones, because the inefficient universities would be out competed by the efficient ones. (You could still be right though, because universities are not a perfectly free market.)
- nmrm2 11y ago
  > The lesson of the USSR seems to have been... ...that victors write the history books. Seriously, the notion that there was a single cause for the decline of the USSR -- and that this cause corresponds exactly to the ideologies at the heart of its antagonistic relationship with its enemies -- is prime facia suspicious. There were a myriad of economic, structural, political, environmental, geopolitical, and military reasons for the collapse of the USSR. Boiling all of that down to "Socialism Bad" is a nice rallying cry, but not exactly a helpful analysis (or at all likely to be very accurate). >... because the inefficient universities would be out competed by the efficient ones What does this even mean? What does it mean for a university to be "efficient"? I think you're confusing what ideology claims should happen with observable reality; namely, that higher education in the US is 1) closer to a free market than peer nations; and 2) horrendously more expensive than peer nations. >... because universities are not a perfectly free market It's one thing to say "we don't know what works, so let's try the thing that one particular ideology prescribes." It's another thing to say "Those people over there don't have our problem. I bet the reason is because we're not doubled down on the exact opposite of what they're doing." In any case, I think I answered above why a free market won't fix higher education: brand names / flashy stadiums / dorms / academic buildings sell better than good instruction and solid research.