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Do you have any idea how difficult it is to actually maintain a low-calorie diet? It's simply not a realistic option for most people. Yes, with sufficient willp

Do you have any idea how difficult it is to actually maintain a low-calorie diet? It's simply not a realistic option for most people. Yes, with sufficient willpower, it'd be possible in theory, but that's like saying that unaided human flight is possible with sufficient muscular power. Dietary restriction just isn't in us.

YeGoblynQueenne 11y ago
Anorexics seem to do it just fine, except of course maybe they overdo it a tad.
- rewqfdsa 11y ago
  And the universal increase in obesity in the west doesn't matter? The idea that voluntary dietary restrictions might have any effect on public health is ludicrous. If that strategy could work, it would have already worked. Do you think many obese people _want_ to be obese?
- DanBC 11y ago
  People with anorexia may create altered gut biome that strengthens the anorexia. http://www.nature.com/tp/journal/v4/n10/full/tp201498a.html http://www.nature.com/tp/journal/v4/n10/full/tp201498a.html Also, it's a mental illness so it's not a fucking choice.
  - YeGoblynQueenne 11y ago
    Er, I'm aware? Look, my point is that it's possible to eat fewer calories, but it's not necessarily easy to do it in a way that doesn't harm you. It's not suppressing appetite that is really complicated, it's reducing calories and staying on top in terms of nutrition.
mrdrozdov 11y ago
I'm not sure willpower is the right word to use here. If there was proof that a certain diet had a significant positive effect on increasing my lifespan, I would almost definitely pursue it. It would be irresponsible not to.
- rewqfdsa 11y ago
  Are you at all overweight right now? (The majority of Americans are.) so, your claim is self-refuting.
- kbenson 11y ago
  On the other hand, I think it would be irresponsible to pursue it based purely on the fact it lengthened your lifespan. For example, I personally would not pursue caloric restriction if it yielded a single year of life on average. Quality of life matters.
delinquentme 11y ago
"Dietary restriction just isn't in us." like ... unsure how to respond to this... Like its just so blatantly wrong. source: me, a person whos maintained substantially fasted states for long periods of time
- rewqfdsa 11y ago
  Yes, that's you. Go outside. Look around. Do you think we _as_ _a_ _population_ can maintain diets? The existence of rare outliers (and anorexics) does not disprove the bloody obvious conclusion that at population scale telling people to eat less has no effect on how much they actually eat.
DanBC 11y ago
You don't need a low calorie diet. You need a lower calorie diet. The amount of food that people need to give up is sometimes quite small. Or they need to change a few items a day to a healthier alternative. This is slow, but maintainable, and it's what most modern evidence-based weight loss plans recommend.
- rewqfdsa 11y ago
  That's true. These plans, properly followed, work as advertised. That's physics. The trouble is that most people do not follow this plans, and after 40 years of trying to show otherwise, we now know that this situation isn't going to change. Why is it that so many people are completely oblivious to the limits of human psychology? Telling people to eat less doesn't work. We need to try other public health measures.
  - DanBC 11y ago
    I just said that these modern plans are not about telling people to just eat less, perhaps I wasn't clear. Modern weight loss plans focus on making sure people feel full, and have tricks to help people feel like nothing is forbidden (you could still eat cheese or chocolate, just controlled small amounts), while helping them make better choices. There's not much evidence, and the evidence is about as good as all the other dietary stuff (not great) but they do seem to work and be maintainable.
    - rewqfdsa 11y ago
      Low-carbohydrate diets are supposed to decrease calorie intake without reducing satiation. They've been around for 50 years. They may work for individual people, but they do not work at scale as a public health measure. Why is this concept so difficult to get across? There are _constant_ advertisements in every medium for weight loss programs of every sort. We've already explored the entire parameter space of dieting. Tweaking the food mix and saying, "No. This time we have the perfect mix to keep you health and full!" isn't science. It's quackery that belongs on the cover of Cosmo. You know what works in reality? * Amphetamines * Nicotine * 2,4-Dinitrophenol * Gastric surgery of various sorts * Cancer Of course none of these things is an effective public health measure. (Although there's some evidence that e-cigarettes aren't quite as carcinogenic as regular cigarettes, but might still deliver all of nicotine's benefits.) You know what might actually work? * Pigovian taxes on high glycemic index food and drink * A ban on food advertisement * Portion size regulation * Weight-based airfare But these are all unpopular, because they contravene the pretty little dogma that we all have enough willpower within ourselves to accomplish our goals. Sometimes we need an external kick in the ass. It's time we stop pretending that yelling at people about diet and exercise is going to make a bit of difference. We might as well yell at the sea and tell it to stop rising.

YeGoblynQueenne 11y ago

Anorexics seem to do it just fine, except of course maybe they overdo it a tad.

rewqfdsa 11y ago
And the universal increase in obesity in the west doesn't matter? The idea that voluntary dietary restrictions might have any effect on public health is ludicrous. If that strategy could work, it would have already worked. Do you think many obese people _want_ to be obese?
DanBC 11y ago
People with anorexia may create altered gut biome that strengthens the anorexia. http://www.nature.com/tp/journal/v4/n10/full/tp201498a.html http://www.nature.com/tp/journal/v4/n10/full/tp201498a.html Also, it's a mental illness so it's not a fucking choice.
- YeGoblynQueenne 11y ago
  Er, I'm aware? Look, my point is that it's possible to eat fewer calories, but it's not necessarily easy to do it in a way that doesn't harm you. It's not suppressing appetite that is really complicated, it's reducing calories and staying on top in terms of nutrition.

mrdrozdov 11y ago

I'm not sure willpower is the right word to use here. If there was proof that a certain diet had a significant positive effect on increasing my lifespan, I would almost definitely pursue it. It would be irresponsible not to.

rewqfdsa 11y ago
Are you at all overweight right now? (The majority of Americans are.) so, your claim is self-refuting.
kbenson 11y ago
On the other hand, I think it would be irresponsible to pursue it based purely on the fact it lengthened your lifespan. For example, I personally would not pursue caloric restriction if it yielded a single year of life on average. Quality of life matters.

delinquentme 11y ago

"Dietary restriction just isn't in us." like ... unsure how to respond to this... Like its just so blatantly wrong. source: me, a person whos maintained substantially fasted states for long periods of time

rewqfdsa 11y ago
Yes, that's you. Go outside. Look around. Do you think we _as_ _a_ _population_ can maintain diets? The existence of rare outliers (and anorexics) does not disprove the bloody obvious conclusion that at population scale telling people to eat less has no effect on how much they actually eat.

DanBC 11y ago

You don't need a low calorie diet. You need a lower calorie diet. The amount of food that people need to give up is sometimes quite small. Or they need to change a few items a day to a healthier alternative. This is slow, but maintainable, and it's what most modern evidence-based weight loss plans recommend.

rewqfdsa 11y ago
That's true. These plans, properly followed, work as advertised. That's physics. The trouble is that most people do not follow this plans, and after 40 years of trying to show otherwise, we now know that this situation isn't going to change. Why is it that so many people are completely oblivious to the limits of human psychology? Telling people to eat less doesn't work. We need to try other public health measures.
- DanBC 11y ago
  I just said that these modern plans are not about telling people to just eat less, perhaps I wasn't clear. Modern weight loss plans focus on making sure people feel full, and have tricks to help people feel like nothing is forbidden (you could still eat cheese or chocolate, just controlled small amounts), while helping them make better choices. There's not much evidence, and the evidence is about as good as all the other dietary stuff (not great) but they do seem to work and be maintainable.
  - rewqfdsa 11y ago
    Low-carbohydrate diets are supposed to decrease calorie intake without reducing satiation. They've been around for 50 years. They may work for individual people, but they do not work at scale as a public health measure. Why is this concept so difficult to get across? There are _constant_ advertisements in every medium for weight loss programs of every sort. We've already explored the entire parameter space of dieting. Tweaking the food mix and saying, "No. This time we have the perfect mix to keep you health and full!" isn't science. It's quackery that belongs on the cover of Cosmo. You know what works in reality? * Amphetamines * Nicotine * 2,4-Dinitrophenol * Gastric surgery of various sorts * Cancer Of course none of these things is an effective public health measure. (Although there's some evidence that e-cigarettes aren't quite as carcinogenic as regular cigarettes, but might still deliver all of nicotine's benefits.) You know what might actually work? * Pigovian taxes on high glycemic index food and drink * A ban on food advertisement * Portion size regulation * Weight-based airfare But these are all unpopular, because they contravene the pretty little dogma that we all have enough willpower within ourselves to accomplish our goals. Sometimes we need an external kick in the ass. It's time we stop pretending that yelling at people about diet and exercise is going to make a bit of difference. We might as well yell at the sea and tell it to stop rising.