5 ms·

You need to be prepared at all times. You never know when (not if) they are going to come for you. I lasted 25 years and 11 months at one company before they ca

by hwstar 11y ago

You need to be prepared at all times. You never know when (not if) they are going to come for you. I lasted 25 years and 11 months at one company before they came for me. (In hindsight, I should have quit long before the company got into such dire straits, but it was an easy commute, and the co-workers were great people to work with) Layoffs in the tech industry will happen. An emergency fund or F.U. money is required to deal with it. Once you are over 50 like me, you need to be in a position financially to live several years without a paycheck because it could take years for the job market dynamics to change and become more favourable for the employee. During the time you are out of work for a long stretch take some time to learn some new skills, contributing to open source software is an excellent way to do this. You must always place your interests ahead of the company you are currently working for, the company is not going to place your interests ahead of it's own. You are just a pawn to them. If the companies interests start to conflict with yours, then you must be prepared to leave (either voluntarily or they'll do it for you at their time and place of choosing).

carsongross 11y ago
> 25 years and 11 months > You need to be in a position financially to live several years without a paycheck because it could take years for the job market dynamics to change and become more favourable for the employee. How insane is that? Add to the fact that cost of living is so high now in the Bay Area, and safe returns are so low, that building up any sort of true emergency savings is difficult... Insane.
- nostrademons 11y ago
  Save 20% of your income for 25 years and you'll have 5 years living expenses saved up. That's assuming zero returns on capital, beyond inflation. It just means assuming that your $125K/year salary is actually $100K, or your $100K/year salary is actually $80K. There are people - even in the Bay Area - who live on less than half of that.
  - mattmanser 11y ago
    You've forgotten that you only spend 80% of your salary, so you'd have 6.25 years.
  - naveen99 11y ago
    Do you mean 20% excluding retirement programs ? Remember to do that after maximizing contributions to your 401k, ira, etc... At layoff time you might be able to extract some money without penalty and with minimal taxes.
- hwstar 11y ago
  I have to admit I'm not in the Bay Area, but San Diego, CA. It would be much harder to do in the Bay Area, but not impossible. In San Diego, the tech job market goes through cycles which crater deeper than the Bay Area during bad times. We really had bad times back in the early 90's when General Dynamics left. We are now facing the same thing with Qualcomm layoffs due to happen next month.
balladeer 11y ago
> In hindsight, I should have quit long before the company got into such dire straits, but it was an easy commute, and the co-workers were great people to work with Not as experienced as you but as a younger guy I would like to share my experience - I lasted 4 years and few months before I was asked to go. Even though I never considered myself irreplaceable in a firm of 6K+ coders, it was a revelation how "business strategies" may "require you to be let go" which would be of course "better for your career". Finding another job was super easy for me (I believe that was because of my young developer age). But I was really bitter about the "let go" process and the way things were handled. It was only after few months that I realised that it was actually very good for my career and yes when I look back I see I should have left the place at least 3 years ago when things had started to change and I still didn't act. It was just a good salary, a very tightly knit team, and a relaxed work environment. I had gotten into the comfort zone. When I was out I took that long cherished 3 months cross country solo backpacking trip. As for the emergency fund - yes, even for a younger person like me with no responsibilities or liabilities a medical insurance (I had been paying for one since I had joined - here in my country medical insurance in general means whatever your firm offers me and usually no one buys any medical insurance on their own) was something I had along with regular transfers from salary account to few deposit accounts and into some equity funds. > Once you are over 50 like me, you need to be in a position financially to live several years without a paycheck This! I have been planning for this as a retirement strategy now. Actually as an "involuntary retirement" strategy. It might sound naive and may actually be naive but when I am planning for my MS now, this is one of the use-cases I have in mind. With an MS I will have another career option (or rather call it freelancing) - teaching in colleges and universities as adjunct/visiting faculty. One of my lecturers (actually one of the better ones) did not have a PhD. He told us he was laid off from his job and he didn't want to find another job in the industry and he was considering a PhD (he was 53 at the time). He taught in some other colleges too. And yes, a company may ask you to go at the first sign of trouble and hence I find it incredibly surprising when employees leaving a company at the first sign of trouble are frowned upon and are often called "disloyal" by some people.
- cafard 11y ago
  As a sometime adjunct, and husband and brother of adjuncts, let me warn you: adjunct teaching may eventually be a nice supplement to regular income, but the first time or two through the class, you will be making roughly minimum wage. And I don't think that it is really a career option. Have a look at all the stuff on the internet about the adjunct life.

by hwstar 11y ago

carsongross 11y ago

> 25 years and 11 months > You need to be in a position financially to live several years without a paycheck because it could take years for the job market dynamics to change and become more favourable for the employee. How insane is that? Add to the fact that cost of living is so high now in the Bay Area, and safe returns are so low, that building up any sort of true emergency savings is difficult... Insane.

nostrademons 11y ago
Save 20% of your income for 25 years and you'll have 5 years living expenses saved up. That's assuming zero returns on capital, beyond inflation. It just means assuming that your $125K/year salary is actually $100K, or your $100K/year salary is actually $80K. There are people - even in the Bay Area - who live on less than half of that.
- mattmanser 11y ago
  You've forgotten that you only spend 80% of your salary, so you'd have 6.25 years.
- naveen99 11y ago
  Do you mean 20% excluding retirement programs ? Remember to do that after maximizing contributions to your 401k, ira, etc... At layoff time you might be able to extract some money without penalty and with minimal taxes.
hwstar 11y ago
I have to admit I'm not in the Bay Area, but San Diego, CA. It would be much harder to do in the Bay Area, but not impossible. In San Diego, the tech job market goes through cycles which crater deeper than the Bay Area during bad times. We really had bad times back in the early 90's when General Dynamics left. We are now facing the same thing with Qualcomm layoffs due to happen next month.

balladeer 11y ago

> In hindsight, I should have quit long before the company got into such dire straits, but it was an easy commute, and the co-workers were great people to work with Not as experienced as you but as a younger guy I would like to share my experience - I lasted 4 years and few months before I was asked to go. Even though I never considered myself irreplaceable in a firm of 6K+ coders, it was a revelation how "business strategies" may "require you to be let go" which would be of course "better for your career". Finding another job was super easy for me (I believe that was because of my young developer age). But I was really bitter about the "let go" process and the way things were handled. It was only after few months that I realised that it was actually very good for my career and yes when I look back I see I should have left the place at least 3 years ago when things had started to change and I still didn't act. It was just a good salary, a very tightly knit team, and a relaxed work environment. I had gotten into the comfort zone. When I was out I took that long cherished 3 months cross country solo backpacking trip. As for the emergency fund - yes, even for a younger person like me with no responsibilities or liabilities a medical insurance (I had been paying for one since I had joined - here in my country medical insurance in general means whatever your firm offers me and usually no one buys any medical insurance on their own) was something I had along with regular transfers from salary account to few deposit accounts and into some equity funds. > Once you are over 50 like me, you need to be in a position financially to live several years without a paycheck This! I have been planning for this as a retirement strategy now. Actually as an "involuntary retirement" strategy. It might sound naive and may actually be naive but when I am planning for my MS now, this is one of the use-cases I have in mind. With an MS I will have another career option (or rather call it freelancing) - teaching in colleges and universities as adjunct/visiting faculty. One of my lecturers (actually one of the better ones) did not have a PhD. He told us he was laid off from his job and he didn't want to find another job in the industry and he was considering a PhD (he was 53 at the time). He taught in some other colleges too. And yes, a company may ask you to go at the first sign of trouble and hence I find it incredibly surprising when employees leaving a company at the first sign of trouble are frowned upon and are often called "disloyal" by some people.

cafard 11y ago
As a sometime adjunct, and husband and brother of adjuncts, let me warn you: adjunct teaching may eventually be a nice supplement to regular income, but the first time or two through the class, you will be making roughly minimum wage. And I don't think that it is really a career option. Have a look at all the stuff on the internet about the adjunct life.