4 ms·

I don’t need prejudice in online dating, too

19 points by jdavis703 11y ago

codewithcheese 11y ago
And guess what if you male you will receive less messages than if your female... online dating on average is a indicator of the fickle. but, you don't have to care if you get less messages than someone else. at the end of the day you only need to meet one person. online dating is not that different to offline dating. use whatever platform or situation to try and meet someone you like and get on with your life.
mc32 11y ago
Is it a bad thing black men are choosing outside their race, or that Asian women are choosing outside their race? If there is racism, it's cutting both ways, isn't it?
tonomics 11y ago
The prejudice isn't targeted at black women, but black people in general.
tomp 11y ago
> My experience reflected this trend. It became glaringly obvious that I was getting far fewer matches and messages while online dating than my non-black friends. I wonder if she has considered the alternative theory... that she's just less attractive?! According to a quick Google search [1] [2], black women are more likely to be obese than e.g. white women. Maybe what you think is preference in race is actually a preference in attractiveness/normal weight. [1] http://www.stateofobesity.org/disparities/ http://www.stateofobesity.org/disparities/ [2] http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6107a5.htm http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6107a5.htm
savanaly 11y ago
If it were just about race, you wouldn't see this gender disparity in asian men/women and black women/men. I think it's more about what people perceive as sexy-- petite in women and bulky in men. Although it is definitely about race somewhat, just not entirely I think.
discardorama 11y ago
Notice the diagonal of green in the "women rating men" table in OKCupid's data: http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/race-attraction-2009-2014/ http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/race-attraction-2009-2014/ ? It says that women prefer a person of their own race too. The writer seems to imply that online dating uniquely has this problem. On the contrary: IRL, it is very easy to act on your biases and not approach the Black woman at a bar; but no-one's there to quantize such interactions and count them and graph them.
- Eyas 11y ago
  > The writer seems to imply that online dating uniquely has this problem. On the contrary: IRL, ... Not sure why you draw this conclusion? The OKCupid blog (as well as the linked article) are both clear in that this data on an online dating platform simply documents/mirrors a societal trend (and inclinations) already existing. It is not a commentary on online dating or technologies, but the state of society and the role race continues to play.
- untog 11y ago
  > The writer seems to imply that online dating uniquely has this problem I don't think she says that at all. She just says that it highlights the issue.
- delinka 11y ago
  I also find it interesting that in the "Women rating men" table, the "White men" column doesn't even have a negative entry for the first three years...
haliax 11y ago
1. I don't think you can conclude that the profile picture incidents are totally about race rather than general appearance 2. Who you date is an extremely personal matter, you should be able to set whatever standard you want.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
sago 11y ago
What a weird article. On one hand it seems to complain that platforms give people tools to be prejudiced (going as far as saying, because it is profitable), then on the other hand saying that matching people with prejudiced people would be bad. So what is it? Is this a technical problem, or a function of more people not wanting to date black women? Complaining about the technology or the platform in this case seemed churlish. There may be a case for saying that people have a gut prejudice, that is easily overcome if they are introduced to people they'd really like, but not ordinarily consider. But if that's been tried and has not met with consumer interest, then it is hardly a platform problem, is it?
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
untog 11y ago
While I'm sure there is much to nit-pick in this specific article, I think the topic is well worth a read and something for everyone to reflect upon. Effectively, black women are penalised in dating scenarios by men of all other races, including their own. That isn't reciprocated and nor is it the case for any other races. While it doesn't seem like focusing on online dating achieves much here - it is just reflecting real life, after all - it's still interesting to think that online dating has the ability to mask these issues (imagine a site with "blind dating"), but it would require people to actively choose to use a service that challenges their preconceptions. For what reason would someone choose to do such a thing? It's difficult to see.
mistermann 11y ago
> At times, online dating as a black woman has been extraordinarily painful. I have desperately wished my friends and peers would more actively and deeply explore how profoundly this disparity in opportunity affects my life and those of millions of others — not to mention how it holds us all back from more equitable and enjoyable dating experiences. > What if online dating sites called on all users to consider what it means to be a black woman or an Asian man while swiping and messaging? How would behaviors change if people were forced to recognize that you are consistently being rejected, not because of who you are but because of your race? I'm curious if the author actively and deeply explores the profound disparity of opportunity suffered by others (men, mostly) who can't get a date, ever (as in literally their entire life), for reasons other than race.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- thescribe 11y ago
  > What if online dating sites called on all users to consider what it means to be a black woman or an Asian man while swiping and messaging? How would behaviors change if people were forced to recognize that you are consistently being rejected, not because of who you are but because of your race? I wonder if this would add to the friction that online dating is attempting to remove? That is to say, would there always be a market for a service lacking the 'feature' of calling on users to consider the meaning of being a black woman. Since presumably the users of a dating site are there to online date.
escherize 11y ago
The author focuses the article on being rejected because of her race, offers a critique of sites that allow filtering via race. Iirc, the most prejudiced category in okc's dataset was level of education. That kind of prejudice doesn't seem to be an issue(?). At least not one that's untouchable. Prejudice around things one cannot change should be the problem. Yet, I don't think wapo would publish an article like this from the perspective of a short man who is upset that dating-site-x allows filtration by height. So maybe prejudice around things that are immutable aren't wholy unacceptable.
daenz 11y ago
The title "Black woman face prejudice ... in online dating too" is entirely ignorant of the fact that black women discriminate against every race but their own, according to OKCupid studies http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/race-attraction-2009-2014/ http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/race-attraction-2009-2014/ But besides that, what kind of wacky world is this where it's now frowned upon to have a preference in who you want as a partner? It's not racist to personally find one race statistically more attractive than another to you. I don't want to date gay men, does that make me homophobic?
- sridca 11y ago
  I totally agree but with one caveat. See the answer to the question "All this data is from a dating site. What does that have to do with my life?" from your link.
- angersock 11y ago
  It's not racist to personally find one race statistically more attractive than another to you. That pretty much is the definition of being a racist. It's a rather personal and benign form of racism, to be sure, but it is very much discriminating based on a person's race. Anyways, on the bright side, it means that there is an underserved market here for black women. That's gotta be useful somehow, I guess?
  - daenz 11y ago
    > That pretty much is the definition of being a racist. We can argue dictionary definitions, and of course I would concede, but in the real world, calling someone a racist has additional connotations. I don't think a subconscious, genetic attraction to your own race, as shown by all the evidence of all races preferring their own race, deserves the label of "racist", with all the guilt and shaming and "wrongness" that comes with that word.
    - delinka 11y ago
      "...genetic attraction..." Whoa, you stepped right into 'nurture vs. nature' territory.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
Mz 11y ago
She is entitled to quit online dating. But her expectation that people should appreciate her for "who" she is, not "what" she is, is probably unrealistic. People who meet her in person can still tell she is black. They either are or are not okay with that. Skipping the step where someone feels confortable stating upfront that the dealbreaking detail is her race may make her more comfortable, but it won't make de facto racists more likely to ask her out. It just helps them hide their racism and not admit so readily that they would interested, if only she were not black.
naturalethic 11y ago
"Either". Not "too"

19 points by jdavis703 11y ago

And guess what if you male you will receive less messages than if your female... online dating on average is a indicator of the fickle. but, you don't have to care if you get less messages than someone else. at the end of the day you only need to meet one person. online dating is not that different to offline dating. use whatever platform or situation to try and meet someone you like and get on with your life.

mc32 11y ago

Is it a bad thing black men are choosing outside their race, or that Asian women are choosing outside their race? If there is racism, it's cutting both ways, isn't it?

tonomics 11y ago

The prejudice isn't targeted at black women, but black people in general.

tomp 11y ago

> My experience reflected this trend. It became glaringly obvious that I was getting far fewer matches and messages while online dating than my non-black friends. I wonder if she has considered the alternative theory... that she's just less attractive?! According to a quick Google search [1] [2], black women are more likely to be obese than e.g. white women. Maybe what you think is preference in race is actually a preference in attractiveness/normal weight. [1] http://www.stateofobesity.org/disparities/ http://www.stateofobesity.org/disparities/ [2] http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6107a5.htm http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6107a5.htm

savanaly 11y ago

If it were just about race, you wouldn't see this gender disparity in asian men/women and black women/men. I think it's more about what people perceive as sexy-- petite in women and bulky in men. Although it is definitely about race somewhat, just not entirely I think.

discardorama 11y ago

Notice the diagonal of green in the "women rating men" table in OKCupid's data: http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/race-attraction-2009-2014/ http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/race-attraction-2009-2014/ ? It says that women prefer a person of their own race too. The writer seems to imply that online dating uniquely has this problem. On the contrary: IRL, it is very easy to act on your biases and not approach the Black woman at a bar; but no-one's there to quantize such interactions and count them and graph them.

Eyas 11y ago
> The writer seems to imply that online dating uniquely has this problem. On the contrary: IRL, ... Not sure why you draw this conclusion? The OKCupid blog (as well as the linked article) are both clear in that this data on an online dating platform simply documents/mirrors a societal trend (and inclinations) already existing. It is not a commentary on online dating or technologies, but the state of society and the role race continues to play.
untog 11y ago
> The writer seems to imply that online dating uniquely has this problem I don't think she says that at all. She just says that it highlights the issue.
delinka 11y ago
I also find it interesting that in the "Women rating men" table, the "White men" column doesn't even have a negative entry for the first three years...

haliax 11y ago

1. I don't think you can conclude that the profile picture incidents are totally about race rather than general appearance 2. Who you date is an extremely personal matter, you should be able to set whatever standard you want.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

sago 11y ago

What a weird article. On one hand it seems to complain that platforms give people tools to be prejudiced (going as far as saying, because it is profitable), then on the other hand saying that matching people with prejudiced people would be bad. So what is it? Is this a technical problem, or a function of more people not wanting to date black women? Complaining about the technology or the platform in this case seemed churlish. There may be a case for saying that people have a gut prejudice, that is easily overcome if they are introduced to people they'd really like, but not ordinarily consider. But if that's been tried and has not met with consumer interest, then it is hardly a platform problem, is it?

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

untog 11y ago

While I'm sure there is much to nit-pick in this specific article, I think the topic is well worth a read and something for everyone to reflect upon. Effectively, black women are penalised in dating scenarios by men of all other races, including their own. That isn't reciprocated and nor is it the case for any other races. While it doesn't seem like focusing on online dating achieves much here - it is just reflecting real life, after all - it's still interesting to think that online dating has the ability to mask these issues (imagine a site with "blind dating"), but it would require people to actively choose to use a service that challenges their preconceptions. For what reason would someone choose to do such a thing? It's difficult to see.

mistermann 11y ago

> At times, online dating as a black woman has been extraordinarily painful. I have desperately wished my friends and peers would more actively and deeply explore how profoundly this disparity in opportunity affects my life and those of millions of others — not to mention how it holds us all back from more equitable and enjoyable dating experiences. > What if online dating sites called on all users to consider what it means to be a black woman or an Asian man while swiping and messaging? How would behaviors change if people were forced to recognize that you are consistently being rejected, not because of who you are but because of your race? I'm curious if the author actively and deeply explores the profound disparity of opportunity suffered by others (men, mostly) who can't get a date, ever (as in literally their entire life), for reasons other than race.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
thescribe 11y ago
> What if online dating sites called on all users to consider what it means to be a black woman or an Asian man while swiping and messaging? How would behaviors change if people were forced to recognize that you are consistently being rejected, not because of who you are but because of your race? I wonder if this would add to the friction that online dating is attempting to remove? That is to say, would there always be a market for a service lacking the 'feature' of calling on users to consider the meaning of being a black woman. Since presumably the users of a dating site are there to online date.

escherize 11y ago

The author focuses the article on being rejected because of her race, offers a critique of sites that allow filtering via race. Iirc, the most prejudiced category in okc's dataset was level of education. That kind of prejudice doesn't seem to be an issue(?). At least not one that's untouchable. Prejudice around things one cannot change should be the problem. Yet, I don't think wapo would publish an article like this from the perspective of a short man who is upset that dating-site-x allows filtration by height. So maybe prejudice around things that are immutable aren't wholy unacceptable.

daenz 11y ago

The title "Black woman face prejudice ... in online dating too" is entirely ignorant of the fact that black women discriminate against every race but their own, according to OKCupid studies http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/race-attraction-2009-2014/ http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/race-attraction-2009-2014/ But besides that, what kind of wacky world is this where it's now frowned upon to have a preference in who you want as a partner? It's not racist to personally find one race statistically more attractive than another to you. I don't want to date gay men, does that make me homophobic?

sridca 11y ago
I totally agree but with one caveat. See the answer to the question "All this data is from a dating site. What does that have to do with my life?" from your link.
angersock 11y ago
It's not racist to personally find one race statistically more attractive than another to you. That pretty much is the definition of being a racist. It's a rather personal and benign form of racism, to be sure, but it is very much discriminating based on a person's race. Anyways, on the bright side, it means that there is an underserved market here for black women. That's gotta be useful somehow, I guess?
- daenz 11y ago
  > That pretty much is the definition of being a racist. We can argue dictionary definitions, and of course I would concede, but in the real world, calling someone a racist has additional connotations. I don't think a subconscious, genetic attraction to your own race, as shown by all the evidence of all races preferring their own race, deserves the label of "racist", with all the guilt and shaming and "wrongness" that comes with that word.
  - delinka 11y ago
    "...genetic attraction..." Whoa, you stepped right into 'nurture vs. nature' territory.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

Mz 11y ago

She is entitled to quit online dating. But her expectation that people should appreciate her for "who" she is, not "what" she is, is probably unrealistic. People who meet her in person can still tell she is black. They either are or are not okay with that. Skipping the step where someone feels confortable stating upfront that the dealbreaking detail is her race may make her more comfortable, but it won't make de facto racists more likely to ask her out. It just helps them hide their racism and not admit so readily that they would interested, if only she were not black.

naturalethic 11y ago

"Either". Not "too"