5 ms·

That's as simplistic as saying Australia is a bunch of criminals. The USA spans a huge continent which was settled by a huge number of very different groups al

That's as simplistic as saying Australia is a bunch of criminals. The USA spans a huge continent which was settled by a huge number of very different groups all with different moral and philosophical foundations.

justthistime_ 11y ago
> "But, but ... we play both kinds of music, Country and Western!" Yeah, but somehow it's only one group of people who seems to call the shots: Those with a disdain for the poor, the weak, the ill, the black and women.
trhway 11y ago
No. There is no national party in Australia with a base consisting mainly of criminals. Whereis the US Republican party's base display all the worst characteristics of puritanism, including their "holier than thou" main driving attitude which directly feeds their views on crime and punishment.
- Thriptic 11y ago
  I can't speak to Republicans' ideas of crime and punishment, but I will say that the US is a place which encourages and fosters individualism strongly as opposed to collectivism (right term?). In a more collectivist / society focused model as you might find in Europe, it makes sense that the focus of prison would be rehabilitation and programs focused on improving the greater good. In a model emphasizing individualism, it makes sense that the focus of prison would be punishment: The offender made certain choices as an individual and has harmed the victim's ability to operate as an individual. The victim therefore has the right to seek justice.
  - trhway 11y ago
    while it sounds logical, the counter-example would be Russia. It has a very collectivist, hive, mentality - completely opposite to US, yet the same focus on punishment (in hellish prisons) instead of rehabilitation. The common though is the "you've sinned -> go to hell" religion. The countries like German are much more secular (as of today), and that naturally results in more humane society, including the criminal punishment policies. It is also noticeable in social economical policies - the approach "you're poor because you're a lazy bum" can be seen as a form of punishment which is a natural view in the US (especially to the religious part of the society) while obviously less so for Germany. Note that such "punishment" is not explicitly inflicted by people, instead it viewed along the lines like "God loves hard working good people (and hates the opposite ones)".
  - pluma 11y ago
    Saying the US "encourages and fosters individualism" is a bit too optimistic. The US also "encourages and fosters" the idea of personal responsibility. Everyone can become a billionaire. If you don't, that's your personal failure. If you commit a crime, that's your own fault and you should be punished for it. If you become unemployed and don't find another job, you're lazy and just don't put in enough effort. If you're poor, again, your fault and how dare you ask for hand-outs? The US doesn't emphasize individualism, it's anti-social.

justthistime_ 11y ago

> "But, but ... we play both kinds of music, Country and Western!" Yeah, but somehow it's only one group of people who seems to call the shots: Those with a disdain for the poor, the weak, the ill, the black and women.

trhway 11y ago

No. There is no national party in Australia with a base consisting mainly of criminals. Whereis the US Republican party's base display all the worst characteristics of puritanism, including their "holier than thou" main driving attitude which directly feeds their views on crime and punishment.

Thriptic 11y ago
I can't speak to Republicans' ideas of crime and punishment, but I will say that the US is a place which encourages and fosters individualism strongly as opposed to collectivism (right term?). In a more collectivist / society focused model as you might find in Europe, it makes sense that the focus of prison would be rehabilitation and programs focused on improving the greater good. In a model emphasizing individualism, it makes sense that the focus of prison would be punishment: The offender made certain choices as an individual and has harmed the victim's ability to operate as an individual. The victim therefore has the right to seek justice.
- trhway 11y ago
  while it sounds logical, the counter-example would be Russia. It has a very collectivist, hive, mentality - completely opposite to US, yet the same focus on punishment (in hellish prisons) instead of rehabilitation. The common though is the "you've sinned -> go to hell" religion. The countries like German are much more secular (as of today), and that naturally results in more humane society, including the criminal punishment policies. It is also noticeable in social economical policies - the approach "you're poor because you're a lazy bum" can be seen as a form of punishment which is a natural view in the US (especially to the religious part of the society) while obviously less so for Germany. Note that such "punishment" is not explicitly inflicted by people, instead it viewed along the lines like "God loves hard working good people (and hates the opposite ones)".
- pluma 11y ago
  Saying the US "encourages and fosters individualism" is a bit too optimistic. The US also "encourages and fosters" the idea of personal responsibility. Everyone can become a billionaire. If you don't, that's your personal failure. If you commit a crime, that's your own fault and you should be punished for it. If you become unemployed and don't find another job, you're lazy and just don't put in enough effort. If you're poor, again, your fault and how dare you ask for hand-outs? The US doesn't emphasize individualism, it's anti-social.