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>The agency pried its way into the servers in Huawei’s sealed headquarters in Shenzhen, China’s industrial heart, according to N.S.A. documents provided by the

>The agency pried its way into the servers in Huawei’s sealed headquarters in Shenzhen, China’s industrial heart, according to N.S.A. documents provided by the former contractor Edward J. Snowden

vezzy-fnord 11y ago
The article didn't make it clear whether these were part of the wholesale leaks, or directly traded by Snowden. The implications would differ depending on how they were transmitted. What's more is that the operation involves a clear cut act of economic warfare that ensnares U.S. allies as collateral, so it's not like this is an open and shut case in favor of the NSA. It's quite ethically ambiguous. I also don't see how "but Binney said" is remotely persuasive. Binney himself was the advocate of a bulk collection and analysis system named ThinThread, this aside from the generally dubious nature of arguments from authority.
- throwaway1150 11y ago
  >the operation involves a clear cut act of economic warfare What act of "economic warfare" are you referring to? Huawei's much-publicized theft of source code from CISCO? Unless you have actual evidence of the NSA passing on the intelligence it gathered to domestic firms, you have little basis for characterizing their efforts to ascertain the extent of Huawei's relationship with the Chinese government and PLA as "economic warfare." If anyone but Snowden leaked this sort of information to the Chinese or Russians, there would be little debate about whether or not they deserved some sort of punishment for it. Snowden's American supporters come across as shrill or even perfidious for excusing this conduct.
  - vezzy-fnord 11y ago
    I'm not an American. Again, your presenting the case as being some mere reconnaissance operation to "ascertain the extent of Huawei's relationship with the Chinese government" is quite overloaded itself, since the linked article did mention exploiting products en masse with one of the aims being to roam in foreign countries' telecom networks by the proxy of Huawei products, and this including U.S. allies. This goes beyond information gathering and recon, and yes, could be construed as economic warfare (this does not at all imply a value judgment, but you seem to be taking the term as if it's a pejorative). Hell, the fact you brought up source code theft only strengthens such a description. If anyone but Snowden leaked this sort of information to the Chinese or Russians, there would be little debate about whether or not they deserved some sort of punishment for it. Again, you didn't state whether these were part of the leaks, or whether Snowden had specifically handed over information to a nation state. The connotations would be quite different depending on how it was revealed. This strengthened by the case not necessarily being in favor of the NSA, your emotional pleas notwithstanding.
    - throwaway1150 11y ago
      > I'm not an American. Well, then it's little wonder that the prospect of him sharing classified information with the Chinese or Russians doesn't bother you all that much. However, I never would have guessed you to be non-American from your posts in this thread, particularly the one quoted below where you forcefully instruct us as to how and if (at all) we should punish those who violate our laws, and where the last sentence begins with the pronoun "we," which I foolishly took to refer to the citizens of the United States but apparently instead referred to some larger collective (perhaps the citizens of the world?): >That's exactly how it works. The law does not exist in isolation as an axiomatic rule. The intent and circumstances of an action are all taken into account. Legalism is tyranny, plain and simple. >Also, you are allowed to say "Yeah, he broke the law, but we don't give a fuck." It's called jury nullification. >As soon as you excuse the law because it doesn't "feel" right, you walk a shaky path to anarchy. >The United States hasn't been walking to the path of anarchy, but quite the opposite. We actually need more anarchy. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10404739 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10404739
      - vezzy-fnord 11y ago
        It's flattering that you have no recourse but to retroactively reject/ignore all my statements based on identity politics. You have not yet clarified regarding "sharing classified information with Chinese or Russians", either. I'm also uncertain of how exactly I have forcefully instructed anyone, unless you consider speech to be aggression. That said, though I am not of U.S. nationality neither by jus soli nor jus sanguinis, I do reside in the United States at present. Stay classy with your throwaway account.
        throwaway1150 11y ago
        >You have not yet clarified regarding "sharing classified information with Chinese or Russians", either. You keep drawing some distinction without a difference between "the leaks" and Snowden "directly handing over" the documents; either way, he is the author of their release and ultimately responsible for the consequences, and Americans are right to be angry with him for it. > That said, though I am not of U.S. nationality neither by jus soli nor jus sanguinis, I do reside in the United States at present. Stay classy with your throwaway account. You're a guest in this country; perhaps you could try acting like one?

>The agency pried its way into the servers in Huawei’s sealed headquarters in Shenzhen, China’s industrial heart, according to N.S.A. documents provided by the former contractor Edward J. Snowden

vezzy-fnord 11y ago

The article didn't make it clear whether these were part of the wholesale leaks, or directly traded by Snowden. The implications would differ depending on how they were transmitted. What's more is that the operation involves a clear cut act of economic warfare that ensnares U.S. allies as collateral, so it's not like this is an open and shut case in favor of the NSA. It's quite ethically ambiguous. I also don't see how "but Binney said" is remotely persuasive. Binney himself was the advocate of a bulk collection and analysis system named ThinThread, this aside from the generally dubious nature of arguments from authority.

throwaway1150 11y ago
>the operation involves a clear cut act of economic warfare What act of "economic warfare" are you referring to? Huawei's much-publicized theft of source code from CISCO? Unless you have actual evidence of the NSA passing on the intelligence it gathered to domestic firms, you have little basis for characterizing their efforts to ascertain the extent of Huawei's relationship with the Chinese government and PLA as "economic warfare." If anyone but Snowden leaked this sort of information to the Chinese or Russians, there would be little debate about whether or not they deserved some sort of punishment for it. Snowden's American supporters come across as shrill or even perfidious for excusing this conduct.
- vezzy-fnord 11y ago
  I'm not an American. Again, your presenting the case as being some mere reconnaissance operation to "ascertain the extent of Huawei's relationship with the Chinese government" is quite overloaded itself, since the linked article did mention exploiting products en masse with one of the aims being to roam in foreign countries' telecom networks by the proxy of Huawei products, and this including U.S. allies. This goes beyond information gathering and recon, and yes, could be construed as economic warfare (this does not at all imply a value judgment, but you seem to be taking the term as if it's a pejorative). Hell, the fact you brought up source code theft only strengthens such a description. If anyone but Snowden leaked this sort of information to the Chinese or Russians, there would be little debate about whether or not they deserved some sort of punishment for it. Again, you didn't state whether these were part of the leaks, or whether Snowden had specifically handed over information to a nation state. The connotations would be quite different depending on how it was revealed. This strengthened by the case not necessarily being in favor of the NSA, your emotional pleas notwithstanding.
  - throwaway1150 11y ago
    > I'm not an American. Well, then it's little wonder that the prospect of him sharing classified information with the Chinese or Russians doesn't bother you all that much. However, I never would have guessed you to be non-American from your posts in this thread, particularly the one quoted below where you forcefully instruct us as to how and if (at all) we should punish those who violate our laws, and where the last sentence begins with the pronoun "we," which I foolishly took to refer to the citizens of the United States but apparently instead referred to some larger collective (perhaps the citizens of the world?): >That's exactly how it works. The law does not exist in isolation as an axiomatic rule. The intent and circumstances of an action are all taken into account. Legalism is tyranny, plain and simple. >Also, you are allowed to say "Yeah, he broke the law, but we don't give a fuck." It's called jury nullification. >As soon as you excuse the law because it doesn't "feel" right, you walk a shaky path to anarchy. >The United States hasn't been walking to the path of anarchy, but quite the opposite. We actually need more anarchy. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10404739 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10404739
    - vezzy-fnord 11y ago
      It's flattering that you have no recourse but to retroactively reject/ignore all my statements based on identity politics. You have not yet clarified regarding "sharing classified information with Chinese or Russians", either. I'm also uncertain of how exactly I have forcefully instructed anyone, unless you consider speech to be aggression. That said, though I am not of U.S. nationality neither by jus soli nor jus sanguinis, I do reside in the United States at present. Stay classy with your throwaway account.
      - throwaway1150 11y ago
        >You have not yet clarified regarding "sharing classified information with Chinese or Russians", either. You keep drawing some distinction without a difference between "the leaks" and Snowden "directly handing over" the documents; either way, he is the author of their release and ultimately responsible for the consequences, and Americans are right to be angry with him for it. > That said, though I am not of U.S. nationality neither by jus soli nor jus sanguinis, I do reside in the United States at present. Stay classy with your throwaway account. You're a guest in this country; perhaps you could try acting like one?